Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate

[rustom.hakimiyan]

Dear MGMAT staff:

I have a SC question for you.

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.
A. Same
B. people in France amd the United States consume fatty foods at about the same rate, the
C. fatty foods are consumed by people in France at a comparable rate to the United States's, their
D. the rate of fatty foods consumed in France and the United States is about the same, the
E. the rate of people consuming fatty foods is about the sae in France and the United States, the

i would think it important to mention the people eating the fatty foods, a detail that's neglected by choice (d).
but, more importantly,
"the rate of fatty foods consumed" doesn't make literal sense (and, remember, literal sense is the only kind of sense that's worth anything in this particular game).
it has 2 possible literal interpretations, neither of which makes any sense:
* a "rate of fatty foods" is somehow being consumed;
* the fatty foods, which are being consumed, have a "rate" that's all their own.

you should say the rate AT WHICH fatty foods are consumed.

Hi Ron,

Two questions for the split between B and D. Unfortunately, I picked B and my reasoning was parallelism/beauty contest along with meaning.

Is my interpretation of beauty contest/parallelism here wrong? Are these statements not supposed to be in parallel?


B) Although people in France/US consume Y at a certain rate, the death rate is lower in France. (Country > Rate, Rate > Country)

D) Although rate xxx in France/US, the rate in France. (Rate > Country, Rate>Country).

I'm not sure I understand your interpretation of D.

You read it as:
"the rate of -- fatty foods being consumed" (this consumption can have a rate, can't it?) or
"the fatty foods consumed has a rate."

Both of these mean the same thing, don't they?

A little more visibility to the meaning behind my question -- I understand why the meaning of E is wrong with (rate of people consuming foods) -- if we take out "consuming..." since that's a modifier, we would be left with "rate of people" which is the incorrect meaning. I don't see how that carries over to D though?

[RonPurewal]

(b) is the correct answer. (you seem to think that (d) is the correct answer.)

neither of those sentences contains a parallel comparison at all, actually.
there's no "____ is the same as ____", and there's no "____ is lower than ____"

the only parallel constructions in those choices are just "x and y"; no problem there.

[benjamindian]

Hi Ron,

I'm trying to straighten out the pronoun rules.

The following two rules are mentioned by you somewhere else

#1. the pronoun that can stand alone must STAND FOR THE NOUN PLUS ALL ESSENTIAL MODIFIERS attached to the noun.

#2. That of and those of NEVER stand for the entirety of the noun+modifiers. They stand only for the noun itself, thus allowing sentences that compare two different things without a need to write out all the words all over again.

What are pronouns that can NOT stand alone besides the four demonstrative pronouns (this, that, these, those - though these was used as a stand alone pronoun once)?

In A, "their" must refer to "people in France", right? and is that another mistake in A since the sentence already contains "in France" at the end?

Or as you mentioned above, we can't say "their rate" because the rate does not belong to the people?

"Their" can't stand alone since it's an adj, correct? So can I put the rule in the following way: the pronoun (except this,that,these,those) must STAND FOR THE NOUN PLUS ALL ESSENTIAL MODIFIERS attached to the noun?

Thanks.

[RonPurewal]

What are pronouns that can NOT stand alone besides the four demonstrative pronouns (this, that, these, those - though these was used as a stand alone pronoun once)?

this ^^ is not something with a ready answer-- at least not from a human being. this isn't the way our brains store information.

(What are all the cities in India with population >200,000 whose names start with "M"? ...no human being could easily answer this)

so, really, the answer will have to be "you'll know it when you see it".

one additional example that comes to mind is "one"-- e.g., I find polar bears attractive, but I have never seen one in real life.
(NOT "one" as in "one should not swim directly after eating"--that one can stand on its own)

[RonPurewal]

In A, "their" must refer to "people in France", right? and is that another mistake in A since the sentence already contains "in France" at the end?

Or as you mentioned above, we can't say "their rate" because the rate does not belong to the people?

change "or" to "and", and then that's exactly correct. (both of those are problems.)

[RonPurewal]

"Their" can't stand alone since it's an adj, correct?

"their" follows the same reference rules as "they"/"them". it's the same word in a different case, so it stands for things in pretty much exactly the same way.

e.g., if "they" has to stand for "people in france", then "their" likewise must stand for "people in france".

[gbyhats]

Hi Dear Manhattan Instructors :)

Can I ask if my summary of aforementioned is correct?

(I attached the original question in the bottom)

--

A) wrong comparison: French people are compared with the nation called the US

B) correct answer.
Note that "people in France and the United States" is acceptable. In this case, "France and the United States" act as a unity.

C) the use of "their" is illogical: "their" is more likely refers to "fatty food" than to "people in France" (Not sure about this one: pronoun ambiguity is not test in GMAT?)

D) the expression of "rate of fatty foods consumed" is wrong: one need to say "fatty foods are consumed at a rate"

E) the expression of "rate of people consuming fatty foods" is wrong: one need to say "people consumed fatty foods at a rate"

Although people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to the United States, their death rates from heart disease are far lower in France.

A. people in France consume fatty foods at a rate comparable to the United States, their
B. people in France and the United States consume fatty foods at about the same rate, the
C. fatty foods are consumed by people in France at a comparable rate to the United States’s, their
D. the rate of fatty foods consumed in France and the United States is about the same, the
E. the rate of people consuming fatty foods is about the same in France and the United States, the

--

Also, there are miscellaneous mistakes:

(the reason why I put them here is because I think they are not fatally wrong)

C) doesn't mention "people"; passive voice
D) passive voice
E) passive voice

[RonPurewal]

B) correct answer.
Note that "people in France and the United States" is acceptable. In this case, "France and the United States" act as a unity.

not a "unity". if we regard F+US as a single population, then the comparison in the problem becomes impossible, because there's nothing to compare.

the sentence still compares the eating habits of people in France with those of people in the US. you just don't have to repeat the word "in".

[RonPurewal]

Also, there are miscellaneous mistakes:

(the reason why I put them here is because I think they are not fatally wrong)

by thinking like that ^^ you're turning a simpler task into a much more complicated task.

in SC, you should think of things only along two binaries:
– ok vs. wrong
– better vs. worse (when comparing answer choices)

that's it. period. end of story.

do not think about "wrong but not fatally".
do not think about "preferred".
do not think about anything else that creates unnecessary gray areas in something that would otherwise be black-and-white.

[RonPurewal]

C) doesn't mention "people"; passive voice
D) passive voice
E) passive voice

hm? the passive voice is not a "mistake".

[gbyhats]

Thank you very much for your reply Ron!!! :)

the sentence still compares the eating habits of people in France with those of people in the US. you just don't have to repeat the word "in".

So, in parallel structure, we don't need to repeat preposition (e.g. to, with, for, in), if omitting won't cause ambiguity or confusion?

do not think about "wrong but not fatally".
do not think about "preferred".
do not think about anything else that creates unnecessary gray areas in something that would otherwise be black-and-white.

Oops!!! I have been doing that since the very beginning when I started to study for GMAT! I won't do that anymore!

the passive voice is not a "mistake".

I'm shock to know this!!! Never know this before!

--

Thank you Ron!!!

In less than one minute, you help me correct my two really big fundamental mistakes!

I will keep these in mind!

[RonPurewal]

So, in parallel structure, we don't need to repeat preposition (e.g. to, with, for, in), if omitting won't cause ambiguity or confusion?

"are we allowed to do something that's in a correct answer?" ... well, yes.

[RonPurewal]

the passive voice is not a "mistake".

I'm shock to know this!!! Never know this before!

if this is true, then you just need to spend more time studying the correct answers to official problems.

i just opened my OG to three random pages in the SC chapter (pages 675-677). on those three pages, there are no fewer than four different problems (#17, #21, #29, #31) whose correct answers use passive verbs.

... and that's only three pages, out of many, many pages of problems. so, to think that the passive is a "mistake", you'd have to ignore LOTS of evidence to the contrary.

[gbyhats]

if this is true, then you just need to spend more time studying the correct answers to official problems.

Haha, you are right Ron! It appears that I have one more thing I need to unlearn.

[tim]

Keep working at it! Glad you're getting some real benefit out of the forums.