At one time, the majestic American chestnut was so prevalent

[tim]

read the thread to find out why B is wrong. please stop posting questions that have already been answered.

to answer your query about what the difference is between your two examples, the biggest difference is that the first one is correct and the second one isn't.

[Suapplle]

sorry to bump up the old thread
are there the idioms that
"It is/was said (that)......" or "sb/sth is/was said to be"?
please certify,thanks in advance.

[RonPurewal]

Yes.

[EmilyJ788]

How come it doesn't require a "that" between "said" and "a squirrel"?

you're going to hate this answer, but ... because it just doesn't. :)

that's actually a serious answer: in the majority of uses like this (she believed (that)..., it has been said (that)... etc.), it's acceptable to omit the word 'that' if the construction's meaning is still clear and unambiguous.

in this case, an extra factor in favor of omitting 'that' is the occurrence of the word 'that' just a few words away; a sentence containing the words '...so prevalent that it was said that...' would be awfully ugly.

Under what circumstances can "that" be omitted when a clause is introduced?
Thanks in advance.

see above. the cases in which it can be eliminated are many and varied.

a thought that should provide some consolation: i'm pretty certain that the gmat won't include a problem that hangs on the presence vs. absence of the word 'that' alone. note that, in this problem, the presence/absence of 'that' isn't really an issue, because all the choices except a and d can be eliminated on other grounds of grammar/usage. both of those remaining choices - a and d - omit the word 'that', so you don't have to make that decision yourself. (notice that the choice between a and d comes down to the rhetorical meaning of those two choices.)

"It is likely that the GMAT will insist on thatafter most other Reporting Verbs. Other common Reporting Verbs include announce, assert, believe, confess, demonstrate, doubt, expect, hold, know, mention, observe, proclaim, reason, recognize, report, state, think, and warn...The main exception to this pattern seems to be the verb say."

[RonPurewal]

Read more about this here:
post47979.html#p47979

[thanghnvn]

b is wrong because

sb/st is said to do

is idiom

sb/st is said that it dose

is not idiom

I am reviewing some grammar books to prove the above point

if I can find, I will post here. I see gmat test many basic points in grammar books

[thanghnvn]

[quote="Hei"]At one time, the majestic American chestnut was so prevalent that it was said a squirrel could jump from tree to tree without once touching the ground between New York State and Georgia.

(A) so prevalent that it was said a squirrel could
(B) so prevalent that a squirrel was said that it could
(C) so prevalent for a squirrel to be said to be able to
(D) prevalent enough that it was said a squirrel could
(E) prevalent enough for a squirrel to be said to be able to

OA is A.

between A and B

it is said +that clause
is correct idiom

sb/st is said to do
is correct idiom

sb/st is said +that clause
is not idiom

is that right?

[RonPurewal]

Choice B is a nonsense construction. That construction makes sense with other verbs, but not with "said".

E.g.,
The student was told that he needs to start wearing more appropriate clothing to school.

Here, "that he needs to start wearing more appropriate clothing to school" is what was stated TO the student.

This is like a passive form of
The principal told the student that he needs to start wearing more appropriate clothing to school
or
The principal told the student the new rules.

This construction doesn't work with "say", because "say" refers only to the words, not to the person to whom they are said (if there is any such person).
I.e., I can't write "The principal said me the rules."

More generally, though, this is all a non-issue because no one is talking to the squirrel here!

[eggpain24]

Choice B is a nonsense construction. That construction makes sense with other verbs, but not with "said".

E.g.,
The student was told that he needs to start wearing more appropriate clothing to school.

Here, "that he needs to start wearing more appropriate clothing to school" is what was stated TO the student.

This is like a passive form of
The principal told the student that he needs to start wearing more appropriate clothing to school
or
The principal told the student the new rules.

This construction doesn't work with "say", because "say" refers only to the words, not to the person to whom they are said (if there is any such person).
I.e., I can't write "The principal said me the rules."

More generally, though, this is all a non-issue because no one is talking to the squirrel here!

ron，can you help me brief on this issue：“is it prevalent enough in choice D and E a wrong construction here？“ thx！

[tim]

A little deductive reasoning goes a long way here: this is literally the only difference between A (the correct answer) and D, thus it is absolutely certain that this construction is wrong. This is a good approach in general to implement for analyzing SC questions, so be sure to use it to your advantage!

[RonPurewal]

The problem is the combination of "enough..." and "...that..."

"Prevalent enough", by itself, isn't a problem. If you want to connect it with something like this, though, you'd need "prevalent enough to do whatever".

[RonPurewal]

By the way, the "enough ... to do X" construction would be impossible in this context.

In that construction, the chestnut tree would still be the subject of "...do whatever". (E.g., The chestnut tree is prevalent enough to be the sole tree in which bird X nests —> this works.) We're talking about something that people said——not about anything the tree did——so that can't work.

[gbyhats]

Hi Dear Manhattan Instructors,

I came across conflicting explanations in here:

in the link Ron gave us

Read more about this here:
post47979.html#p47979

the correct answer in that question has a "announce (without that)+ clause" structure

however, in page 217, under the GM/S-V/Parallelism section of 5th edition Manhattan Sentence Correction Guide

which is the same as what EmilyJ788 said

"It is likely that the GMAT will insist on that after most other Reporting Verbs. Other common Reporting Verbs include announce, assert, believe, confess, demonstrate, doubt, expect, hold, know, mention, observe, proclaim, reason, recognize, report, state, think, and warn..."

contents that announce should be follow follow by "that"

Do I misunderstand the book or such rule is changed in 6th edition (aka. I should buy the new book : ) )?

[RonPurewal]

well, as you can see, this kind of "that" can sometimes be omitted for stylistic reasons. here, they omit it to avoid undesirable repetition (note the presence of another "that" nearby).

you don't need to know when it can be omitted and when it can't; that's a style issue, and style issues are not tested on this exam. you only need to know that this sort of thing is possible.

[gbyhats]

well, as you can see, this kind of "that" can sometimes be omitted for stylistic reasons. here, they omit it to avoid undesirable repetition (note the presence of another "that" nearby).

you don't need to know when it can be omitted and when it can't; that's a style issue, and style issues are not tested on this exam. you only need to know that this sort of thing is possible.

Got your idea now! Thank you very much Ron!!!