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zhongshanlh
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Re:

by zhongshanlh Fri May 25, 2012 9:26 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
tryingFor750p Wrote:What is the role of "According to records from ancient Athens"?

It's not a modifier.


sure it is. it's an adverbial modifier that modifies the whole clause/action, in much the same manner as would, say, "in olden days, ..."


Ron,experts, i have one more question about the "according to " here.

i know that "according to XXX" is an adverbial modifier and modifies the following clause.

however , i am not sure whether "according to XXX" applies to the subject of the following clause just as "based on XX" does.

please clarify me and thank you very much.
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by tim Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:25 pm

it sounds like you answered your own question. if not, can you clarify further what you're asking?
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by gmatwork Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:42 pm

Is it necessary for a pronoun and its antecedent to be in the same case (say object, subject or possessive case??)
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by tim Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:06 pm

no. look up "possessive poison" either in our SC guide or here on the forum for a description of what is and isn't allowed..
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by vikram4689 Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:31 pm

I eliminated D because I thought "this robe" mentioned in 2nd part of D must be mentioned in the main clause once but, as per OA, even mentioning in 1st || part is ok.

I thought so because i believed both parts must be able to stand, on their own, with the main clause. i.e. following 2 should be perfectly fine sentences. I eliminated D because ii) mentions "this robe" but robe is not in main clause
i) Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed a statue of the goddess Athena
ii) Records from ancient Athens indicate that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.



is this answer an exception or my belief is erroneous
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by RonPurewal Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:49 am

vikram4689 Wrote:I eliminated D because I thought "this robe" mentioned in 2nd part of D must be mentioned in the main clause once but, as per OA, even mentioning in 1st || part is ok.

I thought so because i believed both parts must be able to stand, on their own, with the main clause. i.e. following 2 should be perfectly fine sentences. I eliminated D because ii) mentions "this robe" but robe is not in main clause
i) Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed a statue of the goddess Athena
ii) Records from ancient Athens indicate that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.



is this answer an exception or my belief is erroneous


when you consider things like this -- i.e., "separating" a parallel structure into its two components -- you should always consider them with pronouns/references/etc. replaced by the original noun if necessary.

e.g.,
I believe that Timmy is honest and hard-working and that he will be an asset to our company.
--> this is fine; you don't need to (and shouldn't) write "timmy" twice.
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Re:

by siddharth.itbhu09 Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:07 am

RonPurewal Wrote:Choice D has nothing to do with restrictive vs. non-restrictive, because the 'which' in question is the object of a preposition. This 'which' is no more restrictive than is the 'which' in the following sentence:
'Here are the cities to which I've already travelled.'
Obviously, '...to which I've already travelled' is restrictive (the speaker isn't talking about all cities!), but it's TO which. That resolves this issue.

'Based on' just isn't right - it doesn't convey the right meaning. It would apply to the women themselves (the following subject).
The women are not based on ancient records, so that's wrong.

I think both posters realize that E is wrong already, so no need for discussion there.

So it's C vs D.

Both OPENERS are fine ('According to...' and '...indicate that...'), so that split is a red herring. The problem with C, though, is the last part of the answer choice: 'that they used to dress.' All this means FOR SURE is that the robe was just a tool that the women used in the process of dressing the statue (maybe they used it to zip up the back of the statue's dress...??). Choice D, on the other hand, correctly conveys the idea that the women actually put the dress ON the statue.

How's that?



Thanks Ron. I have a doubt between C and D. We are actually required to keep the meaning of the sentence. So, does not C match more closely than D with respect to the original meaning. Please help.
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by tim Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:38 am

no it doesn't. you seem to think the "original meaning" means "answer choice A". THIS IS NOT TRUE!!! the original meaning is what the author intended before making all the grammar mistakes in the wrong choices. furthermore, as C is grammatically incorrect you should NOT even be contemplating the meaning. ANY grammar mistakes make the answer choice incorrect, regardless of meaning issues..
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Re:

by divineacclivity Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:25 am

RonPurewal Wrote:Choice D has nothing to do with restrictive vs. non-restrictive, because the 'which' in question is the object of a preposition. This 'which' is no more restrictive than is the 'which' in the following sentence:
'Here are the cities to which I've already travelled.'
Obviously, '...to which I've already travelled' is restrictive (the speaker isn't talking about all cities!), but it's TO which. That resolves this issue.


Ron,

Could you please please explain this further more?
What I understand from your explanation above is that "with which" is restrictive because it conveys that it is the same robe that they wove. So, what's the problem here?
RonPurewal Wrote:but it's TO which. That resolves this issue.

What do you mean by "but it's TO which"? I want to know because the explanation would analogically apply to "WITH which"

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Re:

by RonPurewal Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:57 pm

divineacclivity Wrote:Could you please please explain this further more?
What I understand from your explanation above is that "with which" is restrictive because it conveys that it is the same robe that they wove. So, what's the problem here?


your understanding is correct.

the point is that there isn't a problem here. (we are analyzing an element of the correct answer.)

What do you mean by "but it's TO which"? I want to know because the explanation would analogically apply to "WITH which"

Thanks in advance.


ya, you can treat "to which" and "with which" the same way.

basically, here's the deal.

WHICH (by itself) --
-- "nonrestrictive"
-- should be used with a comma at all times
-- if the modifier is taken away, the sentence should still refer just as specifically to the same thing(s). in other words, this kind of "which" is used for modifiers that don't narrow down any possibilities.
e.g.
Trinity High school's swim team, which won the state title last year, is a strong contender for this year's title as well.
--> here, "which" is appropriate because, even if it is taken out, "trinity high school's swim team" is still the same entity.

if you want to use a "restrictive" construction, you should use that instead of which.
e.g.
i am looking for a lightbulb that fits into this particular fixture.
--> here, i am definitely trying to narrow the possibilities -- i'm not ok with just any lightbulb -- so comma + "which" wouldn't work here.

but...
preposition + WHICH
--> in which, from which, to which, etc.
these can be used either with or without commas. in other words, they can be either "restrictive" or "nonrestrictive".

e.g.
The average rent in Santa Clara, to which the San Francisco 49ers are moving, is likely to rise.
but also ...
On the last page of the directory is a list of cities to which the airline flies.
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by brparajuli Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:54 pm

C : According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe
that
they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena
and that
this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

New woolen robe that blah blah.. (modifier of robe) and that blah blah... (functioning as the modifier of robe as well)

But "...new woolen robe that this robe depicted ... does not make sense. C wrong

D : Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

Records from ancient Athens indicate
that
each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a
new woolen robe with which they dressed a statue of the
goddess Athena
and that
this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus,
Athena's father, and giants.

Records from ancient Athens indicate that X and that Y.  Correct

Ron, would you please let me know if my thought process is right?
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by RonPurewal Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:25 am

brparajuli Wrote:Ron, would you please let me know if my thought process is right?


looks good.
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Re: Re:

by divineacclivity Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:00 am

RonPurewal Wrote:but...
preposition + WHICH
--> in which, from which, to which, etc.
these can be used either with or without commas. in other words, they can be either "restrictive" or "nonrestrictive".

e.g.
The average rent in Santa Clara, to which the San Francisco 49ers are moving, is likely to rise.
but also ...
On the last page of the directory is a list of cities to which the airline flies.


Awesome explanation, Ron; thank you very much.
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by tim Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:34 pm

:)
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year yount

by FanPurewal Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:25 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:
brparajuli Wrote:Ron, would you please let me know if my thought process is right?


looks good.



nice! same to my process! thanks Ron