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morningdew123
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by morningdew123 Mon May 31, 2010 2:15 am

[editor: i accidentally hit "edit" instead of "reply", and proceeded to cut up the original version of this post. my apologies.
the below is what remains of the original post to which i responded below.
-- ron]


Let us consider a possibility that two years ago the proportion of the Greenville Times's total revenue generated by advertising sales was 40%. In these 2 years economy grew at a very rapid rate pushing all kinds of revenues up. Therefore, although revenue generated by advertising sales has gone up in number, the proportion of the Greenville Times's total revenue generated by advertising sales still remains 40%. This clearly indicates that reorganization played no role. It was the boom in economy that caused the increase. However, had the proportion of the Greenville Times's total revenue generated by advertising sales gone up to 60% it would have meant that reorganization played a vital role. So, option A looks relevant......


On the other hand, I cant see a relation between increase in workforce and reorganization.
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by RonPurewal Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:14 am

Let us consider a possibility that two years ago the proportion of the Greenville Times's total revenue generated by advertising sales was 40%. In these 2 years economy grew at a very rapid rate pushing all kinds of revenues up. Therefore, although revenue generated by advertising sales has gone up in number, the proportion of the Greenville Times's total revenue generated by advertising sales still remains 40%. This clearly indicates that reorganization played no role. It was the boom in economy that caused the increase. However, had the proportion of the Greenville Times's total revenue generated by advertising sales gone up to 60% it would have meant that reorganization played a vital role. So, option A looks relevant......


two things are very wrong in this reasoning.

1)
it doesn't really appear that you understand the way these questions work. when you say that some factor X is relevant to some other factor Y, this means that a change in factor X by itself indicates something about Y.
if X is conflated with some other factor(s), then this proves nothing about the relevance of X.
in your example, you have commingled the effect of the percentages with the effect of the booming economy, yet concluded that the percentages themselves must be relevant. this is bad logic; if there are two factors combining to produce an effect, then either of the two factors alone might be responsible, so nothing specific is indicated about either of the individual factors.
analogy:
your reasoning here is like saying "i started eating a bunch of grapefruits and lifting weights every day, and i got stronger as a result; therefore, eating the grapefruits must have contributed to making me stronger."

2)
you are using percentage figures both before and after the reorganization, while choice (a) is concerned only with the percentage before the reorganization. you cannot hypothesize the presence of additional data that are not mentioned.

On the other hand, I cant see a relation between increase in workforce and reorganization.


again, two things wrong here.

1)
you're misinterpreting the word "turnover".
this word doesn't mean "increase"; it means "substitution of new things/people for old things/people". in this situation, "turnover" means that old employees are being replaced by new ones.

2)
if advertising sales go up after a completely new advertising force is hired, you definitely cannot ignore the possibility that the new people, rather than the reorganization, are responsible for the new results!
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by ilyana777 Mon May 13, 2013 4:28 am

Hello!

I have a question irrelevant to the problem above but it would be nice to know the answer for the future.

I've read this thread and understood that everybody's assuming that "decline/increase in advertising sales" means "decline/increase in percentage of advertising sales". Why is that? Is it some kind of a rule?

I'm asking because when I saw the text of the problem I thought of decline/increase in absolute numbers, not in percentage.

Thanks!
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by RonPurewal Mon May 13, 2013 7:19 am

ilyana777 Wrote:Hello!

I have a question irrelevant to the problem above but it would be nice to know the answer for the future.

I've read this thread and understood that everybody's assuming that "decline/increase in advertising sales" means "decline/increase in percentage of advertising sales". Why is that? Is it some kind of a rule?

I'm asking because when I saw the text of the problem I thought of decline/increase in absolute numbers, not in percentage.

Thanks!


no, you're right -- it means absolute numbers.

maybe you're forgetting that this is an "except" problem. i.e., the correct answer is the thing that's irrelevant to the argument.
here, the correct answer is the choice about percentage changes, precisely because that choice has no discernible consequence for the absolute numbers in the problem.

always read the problems carefully!
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by asharma8080 Mon May 20, 2013 10:49 pm

I am trying to understand why choice C is not correct.

What does substantial turnover have to do with reorganization. I see the explanation given is that the turnover could be because of reorganization; however, we are trying to focus on the conclusion which is the sales are up because of the reorg, so turnover does NOT have anything to do with the sales. Now, if I assume that Turnover is something that is a result of the reorg, even then no relation to revenue.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. thank you!
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by ilyana777 Tue May 21, 2013 5:11 am

asharma8080 Wrote:I am trying to understand why choice C is not correct.

What does substantial turnover have to do with reorganization. I see the explanation given is that the turnover could be because of reorganization; however, we are trying to focus on the conclusion which is the sales are up because of the reorg, so turnover does NOT have anything to do with the sales. Now, if I assume that Turnover is something that is a result of the reorg, even then no relation to revenue.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. thank you!


As I see it:
Turnover doesn't have to be a result of reorganization.
To simplify the argument: there was a reorganization and it caused an increase in sales. So, we must give our assessment of the argument. In other words, we must pinpoint other possible causes for an increase in sales (note: we are interested in an increase in advertising sales - in absolute numbers, not in total revenue). If we find out that the sales increase because of the turnover (and the reorganization might have nothing to do with it) - this fact will be a flaw of the argument. Thus this information is relevant - and this option can't be the right answer (we are looking for irrelevant information).
Why could the sales increase because of the turnover? It is because "turnover" means that there are new people who work in sales department. Maybe they are more skillful. In this situation it is possible that an increase in sales is totally their merit and the reorganization had no effect.
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by jnelson0612 Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:02 am

ilyana777 Wrote:
asharma8080 Wrote:I am trying to understand why choice C is not correct.

What does substantial turnover have to do with reorganization. I see the explanation given is that the turnover could be because of reorganization; however, we are trying to focus on the conclusion which is the sales are up because of the reorg, so turnover does NOT have anything to do with the sales. Now, if I assume that Turnover is something that is a result of the reorg, even then no relation to revenue.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. thank you!


As I see it:
Turnover doesn't have to be a result of reorganization.
To simplify the argument: there was a reorganization and it caused an increase in sales. So, we must give our assessment of the argument. In other words, we must pinpoint other possible causes for an increase in sales (note: we are interested in an increase in advertising sales - in absolute numbers, not in total revenue). If we find out that the sales increase because of the turnover (and the reorganization might have nothing to do with it) - this fact will be a flaw of the argument. Thus this information is relevant - and this option can't be the right answer (we are looking for irrelevant information).
Why could the sales increase because of the turnover? It is because "turnover" means that there are new people who work in sales department. Maybe they are more skillful. In this situation it is possible that an increase in sales is totally their merit and the reorganization had no effect.


Very good! Yes, we are ruling out other possibilities for the increased sales. If our poor salespeople left and have been replaced with good salespeople, that change could explain the increased sales. The reorganization may have nothing to do with it.
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by GraceZ853 Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:31 am

RonPurewal Wrote:
ilyana777 Wrote:Hello!

I have a question irrelevant to the problem above but it would be nice to know the answer for the future.

I've read this thread and understood that everybody's assuming that "decline/increase in advertising sales" means "decline/increase in percentage of advertising sales". Why is that? Is it some kind of a rule?

I'm asking because when I saw the text of the problem I thought of decline/increase in absolute numbers, not in percentage.

Thanks!


no, you're right -- it means absolute numbers.

maybe you're forgetting that this is an "except" problem. i.e., the correct answer is the thing that's irrelevant to the argument.
here, the correct answer is the choice about percentage changes, precisely because that choice has no discernible consequence for the absolute numbers in the problem.

always read the problems carefully!



Hello, Ron!
I am a little puzzled about the choice D. How is the difficulty to keep up with developments relevant to the evaluation of this program?
I think it appears relevant, but I cannot find the relation.
Thx in advance.
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Re: Following several years of declining advertsisng sales

by RonPurewal Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:42 pm

the passage says:
The reorganization attempted to increase the sales representatives' knowledge of clients' businesses...

if the answer to D is yes—if they were unable to keep up with relevant developments—then the representatives did not have an up-to-date knowledge of their clients' businesses.

in this case the reorganization would be hugely helpful, since each representative would then be tasked only with following the developments in one field.