Hi,
I just took my first official GMAT got a very frustrated score: 660. I was aiming for 720, and I would accept a score above 680 and retake the exam.The main problem seems to be quant. So this is what happened during the quant section (recalling as best as I could) - I got to 23/31 question and there was 10 min remaining. Clearly I was somewhat out of time. Since I only guessed 2~3 questions up until then and the question was challenging, I am guessing I scored well up until then. Well, I struggled on #23 and guessed. When it gets to #24 the clock is already a little under 9min. Usually with 9min I could do 4 difficult math questions so I was hoping I could get a few "right" before have to guess all the way to the end. Well it did not happen. I panic and could not think anymore and pretty much guessed all the way till the end. I think my quant score in the end was 52 percentile. Please see below and let me know what you think.
1) let's say I see one question and I think I know how to solve it. I started and I got to my solution in a little more than 2 min but the answer I got is not in the answer choices. What should I do? today I kept checking and redo which probably took another 2~3min and STILL end up guessing. Do you advice to place a hard stop such as 3min on each question so I can avoid what happened today at the end of the quant section?
2) before now and my retake (not scheduled yet but I am guessing 3 weeks to 1 month), what should I do to improve my quant? I am thinking doing
*your 500 online challenge problem archive - my concern with this is that are these questions so complicated that it is of little help to my GMAT experience?
*6 of your CAT exam (I did one and got 640. Pretty much the same thing that happened today happened during my first CAT)
Note: I have gone through all of Manhattan math strategy guides (from Fraction, Decimal, Percents to Number Properties). I also Have a copy pf GMAT Advanced Quant, which I can redo if you think that's a good idea.
So in the end let me tell you more about my preparation so far. I took 6 Princeton GMAT Practice Tests (690, 710, 720, 730, 730, 760), 2 GMAT Software Prep Practice Tests (710, 730), and Manhattan CAT (640). Manhattan CAT (and today's official exam) I both have time issue for on the quant section and hence my much lower score. I hope this is not a reflection of my quant "ability" but rather my tendency to spend too much time on certain problems.
thanks in advance for your response,
Jeff
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- Yu-MingH64
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- StaceyKoprince
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Re: GMAT Quant - Time Issue
I'm sorry that you had a frustrating test experience. Yes, there are things you can do to manage your time better as you go—and the first thing we need to talk about is getting into the right mindset for this test.
Go read this (right now, then come back here):
http://tinyurl.com/executivereasoning
Why did I tell you to read that right now? What did you get out of that article?
You asked about this scenario; do you have an idea now of how I will answer you?
Here's my answer: If you are under 2m or not very far over 2m, it's okay to re-check your work (quickly), just to see whether you made a careless mistake with the math that you can fix quickly. If you are already around 2m, don't spend more than 30s doing this—if you don't find a mistake, just guess and move on.
Why? Because the test is not actually trying to see whether you can get every math problem right. It's not a math test. The test is actually testing your Executive Decision-making ability. Can you cut something off when it's not working? (This is like deciding to stop your team from working on some new product idea that you'd thought was promising—but it's running into trouble or costing more than you expected...so you make the hard call to walk away.)
Think of your time on the test as your money. You're the VP of your division at work and you have a budget for the year. If you run out of money in August...you're probably going to get fired!
You have to make your money (time) last until the end of the year (test section)—and that means NOT doing everything that you're given.
You can also think of it this way: nobody has time to do every question 100%. Since the test just keeps giving you harder questions when you get stuff right, you'll always run out of time if you keep trying to get every single question right, no matter how much time it takes. So you're going to have to guess on *some* questions. If you don't make a choice earlier on to cut yourself off on hard questions, then you're going to have to guess on a bunch in a row at the end (and your score is going to drop in a big way).
So take control: You are going to have to guess, so at least choose the best time to guess. And that's when the question is really hard / just not happening. (Also: do not wait to guess until you are already behind on time—on an individual question or in the whole section. If you see something that you know you don't know how to do in a reasonable amount of time, bail now—even if it's the first question in the section or even if you are already a couple of minutes ahead on time.)
Anecdote: A student in one of my classes said to me last week, "I took your advice on my practice test and I bailed right away on 5 questions in the quant section. My score in that section was 5 points higher than in my last test. Was that just a fluke?" No! That's not a fluke. That's how the test works. He did what he was supposed to do and he was rewarded for it!
Here's the good news: you scored a 660 even with significant timing problems and a big score drop for the last ~1/3 of the section. If you fix this timing / decision-making problem, you will likely have your 700+ score.
How to fix that?
- Bail a lot faster on questions that are too hard to get right or will take too long to get right (>3 minutes on quant)
- Learn how to work more efficiently on questions that you do know how to do. For example, if right now, you can get something right but it takes you 3.5 minutes, study how to do the question in a different way that takes less time.
Don't just try to do the same math but a lot faster. You need a different approach to at least part of the problem. When I review math problems that I got right, the first thing I ask myself is which part of the solution was the most annoying (to me). And then I go figure out how to do that part of the problem in some different—easier for me—way.
For instance, on a PS problem with numerical answers, you might realize that, halfway through the math, you can estimate for the rest because that will be good enough to get you to the right answer. (On some questions, when the answers are spaced even further apart, you might be able to estimate right from the beginning!)
On other problems, you might use a different approach entirely. For instance, many people struggle to answer the harder algebra and story problems efficiently because they're trying to use "textbook" math—write equations and solve algebraically. Instead, use Smart Numbers or Work Backwards. Draw out the story and logic it out on paper. Estimate whenever you can. The test is designed to work better with these kinds of test-taking approaches; the test-writers aren't actually interested in making sure you know textbook algebra. You're not going to need that in b-school. (Our books describe all of those strategies—do you have our books?)
Do not do our challenge problems—they're ridiculously too hard. Well...you can do them if you just want to challenge yourself. But don't do them in preparation for this test.
Look at this too:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/
And this:
blog/2016/08/19/everything-you-need-to-know-about-gmat-time-management-part-1-of-3/
Go read this (right now, then come back here):
http://tinyurl.com/executivereasoning
Why did I tell you to read that right now? What did you get out of that article?
You asked about this scenario; do you have an idea now of how I will answer you?
let's say I see one question and I think I know how to solve it. I started and I got to my solution in a little more than 2 min but the answer I got is not in the answer choices. What should I do?
Here's my answer: If you are under 2m or not very far over 2m, it's okay to re-check your work (quickly), just to see whether you made a careless mistake with the math that you can fix quickly. If you are already around 2m, don't spend more than 30s doing this—if you don't find a mistake, just guess and move on.
Why? Because the test is not actually trying to see whether you can get every math problem right. It's not a math test. The test is actually testing your Executive Decision-making ability. Can you cut something off when it's not working? (This is like deciding to stop your team from working on some new product idea that you'd thought was promising—but it's running into trouble or costing more than you expected...so you make the hard call to walk away.)
Think of your time on the test as your money. You're the VP of your division at work and you have a budget for the year. If you run out of money in August...you're probably going to get fired!
You have to make your money (time) last until the end of the year (test section)—and that means NOT doing everything that you're given.You can also think of it this way: nobody has time to do every question 100%. Since the test just keeps giving you harder questions when you get stuff right, you'll always run out of time if you keep trying to get every single question right, no matter how much time it takes. So you're going to have to guess on *some* questions. If you don't make a choice earlier on to cut yourself off on hard questions, then you're going to have to guess on a bunch in a row at the end (and your score is going to drop in a big way).
So take control: You are going to have to guess, so at least choose the best time to guess. And that's when the question is really hard / just not happening. (Also: do not wait to guess until you are already behind on time—on an individual question or in the whole section. If you see something that you know you don't know how to do in a reasonable amount of time, bail now—even if it's the first question in the section or even if you are already a couple of minutes ahead on time.)
Anecdote: A student in one of my classes said to me last week, "I took your advice on my practice test and I bailed right away on 5 questions in the quant section. My score in that section was 5 points higher than in my last test. Was that just a fluke?" No! That's not a fluke. That's how the test works. He did what he was supposed to do and he was rewarded for it!
Here's the good news: you scored a 660 even with significant timing problems and a big score drop for the last ~1/3 of the section. If you fix this timing / decision-making problem, you will likely have your 700+ score.
How to fix that?
- Bail a lot faster on questions that are too hard to get right or will take too long to get right (>3 minutes on quant)
- Learn how to work more efficiently on questions that you do know how to do. For example, if right now, you can get something right but it takes you 3.5 minutes, study how to do the question in a different way that takes less time.
Don't just try to do the same math but a lot faster. You need a different approach to at least part of the problem. When I review math problems that I got right, the first thing I ask myself is which part of the solution was the most annoying (to me). And then I go figure out how to do that part of the problem in some different—easier for me—way.
For instance, on a PS problem with numerical answers, you might realize that, halfway through the math, you can estimate for the rest because that will be good enough to get you to the right answer. (On some questions, when the answers are spaced even further apart, you might be able to estimate right from the beginning!)
On other problems, you might use a different approach entirely. For instance, many people struggle to answer the harder algebra and story problems efficiently because they're trying to use "textbook" math—write equations and solve algebraically. Instead, use Smart Numbers or Work Backwards. Draw out the story and logic it out on paper. Estimate whenever you can. The test is designed to work better with these kinds of test-taking approaches; the test-writers aren't actually interested in making sure you know textbook algebra. You're not going to need that in b-school. (Our books describe all of those strategies—do you have our books?)
Do not do our challenge problems—they're ridiculously too hard. Well...you can do them if you just want to challenge yourself. But don't do them in preparation for this test.
Look at this too:
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/blog ... -the-gmat/
And this:
blog/2016/08/19/everything-you-need-to-know-about-gmat-time-management-part-1-of-3/
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- Yu-MingH64
- Students
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:31 am
Re: GMAT Quant - Time Issue
Stacey,
Thank you for your response. First I want to apologize because I realized, after I posted my question, that you already answered many of my questions in many other posts and blog articles. I should've done more research on my part...but to be fair I was panicking...
For the next few days I will try this new "method" on quant. My plan is to take my 2nd CAT this weekend and I will report back after that. Again, thank you so much for your input. I only wish I knew that before last week.
Jeff
Thank you for your response. First I want to apologize because I realized, after I posted my question, that you already answered many of my questions in many other posts and blog articles. I should've done more research on my part...but to be fair I was panicking...
For the next few days I will try this new "method" on quant. My plan is to take my 2nd CAT this weekend and I will report back after that. Again, thank you so much for your input. I only wish I knew that before last week.
Jeff
- Yu-MingH64
- Students
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:31 am
Re: GMAT Quant - Time Issue
Hi Stacey,
Here are my results for CAT 1 and CAT 2 (just took this morning):
CAT 1: Q37, V39, Total 640
CAT 2: Q44, V36, Total 660
On quant, I still ran out of time despite I was consciously trying to manage time. The result, if you can see my CAT 2 report, is that I had 10 min left at #23 and only got 2/9 questions right in the end. Would you say that I am on the right path and I just need to keep practicing? It seems that I am just not aggressive enough at skipping/giving up.
On verbal, I did worse and I guess that's just because over the past week I have been focusing on quant.
Overall there's little improvement on my total score and that's disappointing. I have rescheduled to take another GMAT exam on 6/9. I will keep practicing.
Jeff
Here are my results for CAT 1 and CAT 2 (just took this morning):
CAT 1: Q37, V39, Total 640
CAT 2: Q44, V36, Total 660
On quant, I still ran out of time despite I was consciously trying to manage time. The result, if you can see my CAT 2 report, is that I had 10 min left at #23 and only got 2/9 questions right in the end. Would you say that I am on the right path and I just need to keep practicing? It seems that I am just not aggressive enough at skipping/giving up.
On verbal, I did worse and I guess that's just because over the past week I have been focusing on quant.
Overall there's little improvement on my total score and that's disappointing. I have rescheduled to take another GMAT exam on 6/9. I will keep practicing.
Jeff
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: GMAT Quant - Time Issue
That is a significant jump on Q, so yes, you're definitely going in the right direction there.
And, yes, you have to learn how to be quite aggressive in terms of bailing on questions. Bail on *at least 4* quant questions—and bail means "guess a random letter within 20-30 seconds." Know what you don't like and refuse to engage at all. As soon as you see that you have some category that you hate, pick your favorite letter and move on.
(Note: "at least 4" is just for pure bails. You'll have additional questions that you try and then can't get, so you guess. Those aren't your bails. Bails are "I don't even try; I just pick (B) and move on." (B) is my favorite letter but you can choose whichever letter you like.
Review your test questions. Where should you have bailed, in hindsight? How will you know next time to get out of those questions a lot faster?
Re: Verbal, yes, I see this a lot. You spend all your time focused on one area and then the other area suffers. So factor this in going forward—you do still need to work on V to keep your skills up. If you can get Q44 V39, that's a 680 right there! And that's just matching your highest Q and V scores on those two practice tests—not even getting any better.
Keep me posted.
And, yes, you have to learn how to be quite aggressive in terms of bailing on questions. Bail on *at least 4* quant questions—and bail means "guess a random letter within 20-30 seconds." Know what you don't like and refuse to engage at all. As soon as you see that you have some category that you hate, pick your favorite letter and move on.
(Note: "at least 4" is just for pure bails. You'll have additional questions that you try and then can't get, so you guess. Those aren't your bails. Bails are "I don't even try; I just pick (B) and move on." (B) is my favorite letter but you can choose whichever letter you like.
Review your test questions. Where should you have bailed, in hindsight? How will you know next time to get out of those questions a lot faster?
Re: Verbal, yes, I see this a lot. You spend all your time focused on one area and then the other area suffers. So factor this in going forward—you do still need to work on V to keep your skills up. If you can get Q44 V39, that's a 680 right there! And that's just matching your highest Q and V scores on those two practice tests—not even getting any better.
Keep me posted.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
- Yu-MingH64
- Students
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:31 am
Re: GMAT Quant - Time Issue
Stacey,
Just retook my GMAT and got Q49 (75%), V37 (83%) for a total score of 710 (91%). Although I set my goal at 720, I am not sure if I want/need to retake it again to get that extra 10 pts. I will have to think more and do more research on that...
So since my last update, I took two more Manhattan CATs (#3,#4,#5):
CAT 3: Q44, V40, Total 700
CAT 4: Q43, V37, Total 660
CAT 5: Q47, V40 ,Total 710
Overall I am happy with my official score. Obviously if I want to retake it, I would have to spend more time on verbal to make sure I can consistently score around V40. Quant is still difficult but I am not so nervous about Quant now because...guess what...I don't do difficult questions anymore (thanks Stacey!). One thing I want to bring up though, is that I think I actually "over skipped" during the quant because I had 12min left when I hit question #28 (as opposed to 10min left on question #23).
Jeff
Just retook my GMAT and got Q49 (75%), V37 (83%) for a total score of 710 (91%). Although I set my goal at 720, I am not sure if I want/need to retake it again to get that extra 10 pts. I will have to think more and do more research on that...
So since my last update, I took two more Manhattan CATs (#3,#4,#5):
CAT 3: Q44, V40, Total 700
CAT 4: Q43, V37, Total 660
CAT 5: Q47, V40 ,Total 710
Overall I am happy with my official score. Obviously if I want to retake it, I would have to spend more time on verbal to make sure I can consistently score around V40. Quant is still difficult but I am not so nervous about Quant now because...guess what...I don't do difficult questions anymore (thanks Stacey!). One thing I want to bring up though, is that I think I actually "over skipped" during the quant because I had 12min left when I hit question #28 (as opposed to 10min left on question #23).
Jeff
- StaceyKoprince
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:05 am
- Location: Montreal
Re: GMAT Quant - Time Issue
That is excellent! Congratulations!
Love this:
It's possible to "overskip" but really...if you don't know how to do something...you don't know how to do it. If you hadn't skipped that aggressively, you might have blown too much time (and mental energy) in that sequence and then had a drop in score at the end of the section. And where you end is what you get, so that wouldn't have been good.
But I wouldn't call it overskipping when you still scored a 49!
If you do take it again, then yes, you have more room to lift verbal further than quant. Just make sure that you are also studying quant—I see people who work only on the area they're looking to lift, and then the other (stronger / higher) section drops when they re-take the test.
Finally: If you took our course, then you're eligible for a free Post-Exam Assessment (if you haven't done it already). This is a phone call with an instructor to debrief from test day and come up with a plan to re-take the test. If this applies to you, please send an email to gmat@manhattanprep.com to request the Post-Exam Assessment.
Love this:
I am not so nervous about Quant now because...guess what...I don't do difficult questions anymore (thanks Stacey!).
It's possible to "overskip" but really...if you don't know how to do something...you don't know how to do it. If you hadn't skipped that aggressively, you might have blown too much time (and mental energy) in that sequence and then had a drop in score at the end of the section. And where you end is what you get, so that wouldn't have been good.
But I wouldn't call it overskipping when you still scored a 49!
If you do take it again, then yes, you have more room to lift verbal further than quant. Just make sure that you are also studying quant—I see people who work only on the area they're looking to lift, and then the other (stronger / higher) section drops when they re-take the test.
Finally: If you took our course, then you're eligible for a free Post-Exam Assessment (if you haven't done it already). This is a phone call with an instructor to debrief from test day and come up with a plan to re-take the test. If this applies to you, please send an email to gmat@manhattanprep.com to request the Post-Exam Assessment.
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
Instructor
Director, Content & Curriculum
ManhattanPrep
7 posts Page 1 of 1