GMATPrep SC: It was only after Katharine Graham

[RonPurewal]

Not sure whether I should post it here or create another thread for this SC in prep exam#2.

Maybe I should post here because it is still related to the similar usage question regarding 'after that'.

Unlike bananas, which can be picked green and ripened artificially, strawberries must be picked when they are fully ripe, and they remain at peak flavor for only four or five days after that.

I thought that a pronoun 'that' should refer to a stated noun (phrase). But apparently, 'that' refers to a stated clause - "when they are fully ripe". Hope that this time my RC skill isn't as bad as last time =P

yes, you should post a new thread.
the forum rule is one problem per thread.

you should also follow the forum convention of posting the COMPLETE problem, including all five answer choices, even if you don't have questions about all of the answer choices.

thank you.

[vinny4nyc]

It was only after Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, and it was under her command that the paper won high praise for its unrelenting reporting of the Watergate scandal.

A) It was only after Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, and it was under her command that the paper won high praise
B) It was only after Katharine Graham's becoming publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, and under her command it had won high praise
C) Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 and only after that did it move into the first rank of American newspapers, having won high praise under her command
D) Moving into the first rank of American newspapers only after Katharine Graham became its publisher in 1963, The Washington Post, winning high praise under her command
E) Moving into the first rank of American newspapers only after Katharine Grahame's becoming its publisher in 1963, The Washington Post won high praise under her command

Hi in choice (a) dosent the comma connect two independent clauses? My instinct would have been to rule this choice out because of the sentence having two independent clauses.

[jlucero]

Commas are ok in (longer, extra modified) lists of two things to help clarify which items are parallel. Consider the following:

I enjoy going to Starbucks and eating muffins and drinking coffee.

vs

I enjoy (1) going to Starbucks and eating muffins, and (2) drinking coffee.

In this sentence, the commas helps tell us which things should be parallel:

(1) It was only after Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, and (2) it was under her command that the paper won high praise for its unrelenting reporting of the Watergate scandal.

Instead of (greatly simplified):

The Washington Post (1) moved into the first rank of American newspapers and (2) was under her command.

[Burfi]

there's really no pronoun issue with choice (a), because two of the "it"s are a special construction in which they don't really have single-word antecedents. for example if i write
it was surprising to me that you would say something like that,
this is proper english. if you want to get technical, you could say that the pronoun "it" stands for the entire noun clause "that you would say something like that", but it's easier just to think of this as a special construction.
in choice (a), "it was only after KG became..." and "it was under her command..." are both examples of this type of construction, so the remaining "it" is the only pronoun that really deserves serious consideration.

still, i agree with you that choice (a), while not strictly incorrect, suffers from sloppy writing.

Ron,,
In this choice A there are two kinds of pronoun. One type of "it" that has antecedents and other type of "it" that does not have antecedent. I read somewhere that it is not desirable to have these two types to be in same sentence hence I eliminated it.
Am I not applying the rule correctly? Please advice.

[RonPurewal]

I read somewhere that it is not desirable to...

"i read somewhere" = where?

[Burfi]

Ron,
This is where I read
post35940.html

Look in Stacey's post- You have edited it.
[editor: the repetition of "it" in choice (e) is also highly undesirable. technically, this is not 100% wrong; the first "it" is of a special kind that doesn't require an antecedent. however, that construction is usually used only when there is NOT another "it" in the sentence to muddle things up. --ron]


Can you tell me what is the difference between the two? how come ozone example is incorrect while Katherine example is correct?

[tim]

i would say the big issue here is that your interpretations are too extreme. when Ron says that something is highly undesirable, that does not automatically mean it is *always 100% guaranteed to be wrong* OR *always 100% guaranteed to be right*. Ron even said this himself! THIS is why it can be okay in one sentence and wrong in the other..

the other thing i would worry about here is that, as Ron indicated earlier, this sentence is very suspicious to begin with. i'm not convinced it is a real GMAT Prep question, and we'll need to see a screen shot from the software before we can discuss it further..

[thanghnvn]

possessive+ doing

is never correct on gmat.

this is a hard and fast rule

I apply thi rule to the original problem and eliminate 2 choices immediately

pls, comment.

[tim]

that sounds like a good rule of thumb to keep in mind. not sure what kind of comments you were looking for; if you say something is a hard and fast rule and then apply it, what more are you looking for from us?

i'm still waiting for a screen shot of this problem..

[mcmebk]

are you sure that this is an official gmatprep question? while it's not wildly different from the official problems i've seen, it's not as "tight" (in terms of concision, diction, etc.) as most of those problems.

--

in any case, the main problem i see with choice (c) isn't a pronoun issue; rather, it's the participial modifier beginning with "having". if you write "...having won high praise under her command", the implication is that the paper had already won high praise by the time it moved into the highest echelon of american newspapers - an implication that is at odds with the intended meaning, and is absurd to boot (the watergate crisis was 10-11 years after the mentioned date of 1963).

--

there's really no pronoun issue with choice (a), because two of the "it"s are a special construction in which they don't really have single-word antecedents. for example if i write
it was surprising to me that you would say something like that,
this is proper english. if you want to get technical, you could say that the pronoun "it" stands for the entire noun clause "that you would say something like that", but it's easier just to think of this as a special construction.
in choice (a), "it was only after KG became..." and "it was under her command..." are both examples of this type of construction, so the remaining "it" is the only pronoun that really deserves serious consideration.

still, i agree with you that choice (a), while not strictly incorrect, suffers from sloppy writing.

Hi Ron

In Manhattan GMAT guide book, it says an "emphasis" structure such as "It is he who broke the cup" is considered wordy and not clear and will not appear in GMAT.

Since this post was replied in 2008 and the book is relatively new, I wonder if the rule said in the book is valid, now that we see this example in Prep.

Also I have a question: It was only after Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, does "that" actually function as something? I eliminated this answer right away because I thought it should be "when" rather than "that".

Thank you for all of your posts!

[RonPurewal]

Since this post was replied in 2008 and the book is relatively new, I wonder if the rule said in the book is valid, now that we see this example in Prep.

* if something appears in a current GMAC answer, then it's not wrong.

* the construction you're citing is similar, but not exactly the same. (note that "it was..." is followed by the subject in that example, but not here.)

Also I have a question: It was only after Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, does "that" actually function as something? I eliminated this answer right away because I thought it should be "when" rather than "that".

i don't have any idea what the formal rules are behind this, but i can give you some examples. most importantly, though, don't forget -- if it's in an official GMAC answer, it's not wrong.

if you have this kind of construction ("It was xxxxx that [complete sentence]"), then you want "that".
e.g.
It was only last night that I discovered the theft.

"when" would introduce another modifier that isn't part of the core sentence. e.g.
It was only last night, when I arrived home from vacation, that I discovered the theft.
--> same core sentence as above, just with an extra modifier.

[FanPurewal]

hi ron
are there any errors in E besides *moving*？

i guess *Katharine Graham's becoming* this structure is not appropriate in written english.

please clarify, thank you!

[RonPurewal]

i guess *Katharine Graham's becoming* this structure is not appropriate in written english.

Incorrect. See #120 in OG 13th.

The only real issue with that choice is the use of a modifier that shouldn't be a modifier.

[mehmetserek]

In order to solidify my understanding for the mistakes in choices C and E, I listed below examples. Please comment whether they are OK.

Having passed my exam, I went to movie with friends.
CORRECT. I had already passed my exam by the time I went to movie.

Having won the medal, he raced against tough athletes.
INCORRECT. He hadn`t already won the medal by the time he raced.

Coming from school, I fell from my bike.
CORRECT. "coming" is contemporaneous with the main clause.

Passing the test with highest score, I received an award.
INCORRECT. "passing" is NOT contemporaneous with the main clause. "passing" took place distinctly before the main clause.

[RonPurewal]

In order to solidify my understanding for the mistakes in choices C and E, I listed below examples. Please comment whether they are OK.

Having passed my exam, I went to movie with friends.
CORRECT. I had already passed my exam by the time I went to movie.

Having won the medal, he raced against tough athletes.
INCORRECT. He hadn`t already won the medal by the time he raced.

Coming from school, I fell from my bike.
CORRECT. "coming" is contemporaneous with the main clause.

Passing the test with highest score, I received an award.
INCORRECT. "passing" is NOT contemporaneous with the main clause. "passing" took place distinctly before the main clause.

yes, yes, yes, and yes. well done.