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jp.jprasanna
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Re: Laos has a land area

by jp.jprasanna Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:01 pm

tim Wrote:
bhupi_bits Wrote:@ROn : The choice C has people in it "a population of only 4 million people" . AnD OG says the reference of them is unclear. i am completely lost, why it will not be the case because " them " has only one reference "people" ?


One thing i've found is that the GMAT does not often allow antecedents that are buried deep in the sentence. "people" is buried under three layers of prepositions and is therefore not going to be your antecedent here. Keep in mind though that the GMAT's explanations for SC problems are often unsatisfying, and although their ANSWERS are always correct by definition, their EXPLANATIONS often leave a lot to be desired. The important thing to note here is that C is wrong for other reasons..


Although there are other problem in this ans choice i.e C, most of the time object of the preposition is not LIKELY (only "likely" correct?) to be the antecedent of the pronoun.. but in this case there is nothing in the sentence that can stand for THEM so can we consider PEOPLE as the correct antecedent!?
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Re: Laos has a land area

by jnelson0612 Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:53 am

jp.jprasanna Wrote:
tim Wrote:
bhupi_bits Wrote:@ROn : The choice C has people in it "a population of only 4 million people" . AnD OG says the reference of them is unclear. i am completely lost, why it will not be the case because " them " has only one reference "people" ?


One thing i've found is that the GMAT does not often allow antecedents that are buried deep in the sentence. "people" is buried under three layers of prepositions and is therefore not going to be your antecedent here. Keep in mind though that the GMAT's explanations for SC problems are often unsatisfying, and although their ANSWERS are always correct by definition, their EXPLANATIONS often leave a lot to be desired. The important thing to note here is that C is wrong for other reasons..


Although there are other problem in this ans choice i.e C, most of the time object of the preposition is not LIKELY (only "likely" correct?) to be the antecedent of the pronoun.. but in this case there is nothing in the sentence that can stand for THEM so can we consider PEOPLE as the correct antecedent!?


Stacey actually addresses this issue on the first page of this thread; please take a look. :-)
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Re: Laos has a land area

by ntr1989512 Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:47 am

StaceyKoprince Wrote:
The OG suggested that in C "the reference of them is unclear" would you please explain how?


What is "them" referring to? It can't be referring to either country; a country would take a singular pronoun. Logically, it should be referring to Laotians, or Laotian people... but those words are not in the sentence.


why "them" can't refer "4 million people" ?
Last edited by ntr1989512 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Laos has a land area

by ntr1989512 Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:02 am

RonPurewal Wrote:@ shimbal80
shimbal80 Wrote:I am confused. Is not correct that "them" is referring to "people"?
Why is not correct?

Thanks in advance


go read that choice (c) again; the word "people" does not exist anywhere in that choice (or in the non-underlined part). a pronoun cannot refer to a word that is not actually there!
the closest you get in that sentence is "population", but that's singular.


ron
The choice C has people in it "a population of only 4 million people"
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Re: Laos has a land area

by skumar94 Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:24 am

Hello Ron,

I agree with E as the right answer.While reviewing the explanation OG12 mentions on Pg 705,in the general desc of this question, that the phrase about the population of Laos is most clearly and efficiently expressed in an appositive using a relative pronoun to refer back to people rather than the more abstract population.The OG then adds that this construction keeps the required emphasis on the two claims.
I got lost here...What does the OG mean?
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Re: Laos has a land area

by RonPurewal Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:54 am

skumar94 Wrote:Hello Ron,

I agree with E as the right answer.While reviewing the explanation OG12 mentions on Pg 705,in the general desc of this question, that the phrase about the population of Laos is most clearly and efficiently expressed in an appositive using a relative pronoun to refer back to people rather than the more abstract population.The OG then adds that this construction keeps the required emphasis on the two claims.
I got lost here...What does the OG mean?


as usual, i would recommend avoiding the hardcore grammar terminology, as it's unnecessary and frivolous (not to mention a distraction from the things that do matter).

what they are basically saying here, if you take out the highfalutin language, is "the modifier describes where individual people live, so the word people should be there to make that clear."
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Re: Laos has a land area

by thanghnvn Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:14 pm

regarding "that" in E, the oa.

"that" pronoun is normally used in parallel pattern. in many og questions, "that" pronoun in non parallel pattern is not choosed. Why in this problem, "that" pronoun is used in non parallel pattern.

in some gmatprep problems, 'that" pronoun is used in non parallel pattern.

pls,explain this phenomenon. what do we learn from this oa?

my explanation is that

"that" pronoun can be used in non parallel pattern it the context make "that" unambiguous.
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Re: Laos has a land area

by tim Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:38 am

i have no idea what you're talking about. what makes you think anything is nonparallel here?
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Re: Laos has a land area

by messi10 Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:50 am

Hello,

I need clarification on choice C. I eliminated it because of what it implies:

Choice C make the comparison between land sizes and then goes on to say:

....but in Laos with a population of only four million people, many of them are members of the hill tribes....

Isn't this illogically implying that many people are members of hill tribes because the population of Laos is only 4 million?

Thanks
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Re: Laos has a land area

by jlucero Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:53 pm

messi10 Wrote:Hello,

I need clarification on choice C. I eliminated it because of what it implies:

Choice C make the comparison between land sizes and then goes on to say:

....but in Laos with a population of only four million people, many of them are members of the hill tribes....

Isn't this illogically implying that many people are members of hill tribes because the population of Laos is only 4 million?

Thanks


This is also a question from the OG and the explanation here is that the expression is "generally awkward." I'm not sure there's exactly one way that C is wrong... Ron pointed a few of them out at the beginning of this thread. But if you realize that this is a confusing and ambiguous phrasing, you're doing well here.
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Re: Laos has a land area

by duyng9989 Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:54 pm

I have a question about the subgroup modifier.

Ron has a post about the dog in the earlier post:
" I adopted two dogs, each of which weighs 100 points! "

I found that he Manhattan SC guide also had the subgroup modifier examples:

R: This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF WHICH WERE only recently discovered.
R: This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF THEM only recently discovered.
R. This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME only recently discovered.

W: This model explains all known subatomic particles, OF WHICH SOME WERE only recently discovered.
W. This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF THEM WHICH WERE only recently discovered.
W. This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF WHICH only recently discovered.

I see that, only "Some of Which" structure has support verb To Be ( Were). The other correct answers do not have the support verb Were (Some of them only recently discover; Some only recently discover).

My question is in active voice form (Ron's dog).

Is this correct to say:

"Ron adopted two dog, each only 100 pounds" (I eliminate the verb Weights"???

This question elaborates for question:

Chinese, the most ancient of living writing systems, consists of tens of thousands of ideographic characters, each character a miniature calligraphic composition inside its own square frame (correct)

This sentence is very similar to Ron's dog example. It does not contain main verb TO BE.

Is it correct to say:

Chinese, the most ancient of living writing systems, consists of 10 of thousands of ideographic characters, each of which IS a miniature calligraphic composition inside its own square frame?

Ron, Could you please help me this problem?

Thanks
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Re: Laos has a land area

by duyng9989 Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:22 am

duyng9989 Wrote:I have a question about the subgroup modifier.

Ron has a post about the dog in the earlier post:
" I adopted two dogs, each of which weighs 100 points! "

I found that he Manhattan SC guide also had the subgroup modifier examples:

R: This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF WHICH WERE only recently discovered.
R: This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF THEM only recently discovered.
R. This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME only recently discovered.

W: This model explains all known subatomic particles, OF WHICH SOME WERE only recently discovered.
W. This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF THEM WHICH WERE only recently discovered.
W. This model explains all known subatomic particles, SOME OF WHICH only recently discovered.

I see that, only "Some of Which" structure has support verb To Be ( Were). The other correct answers do not have the support verb Were (Some of them only recently discover; Some only recently discover).

My question is in active voice form (Ron's dog).

Is this correct to say:

"Ron adopted two dog, each only 100 pounds" (I eliminate the verb Weights"???

This question elaborates for question:

Chinese, the most ancient of living writing systems, consists of tens of thousands of ideographic characters, each character a miniature calligraphic composition inside its own square frame (correct)

This sentence is very similar to Ron's dog example. It does not contain main verb TO BE.

Is it correct to say:

Chinese, the most ancient of living writing systems, consists of 10 of thousands of ideographic characters, each of which IS a miniature calligraphic composition inside its own square frame?

Ron, Could you please help me this problem?

Thanks


Bump :).
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Re: Laos has a land area

by RonPurewal Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:57 am

Bump :)


DO NOT "bump" discussions.

... well, actually, i take that back; you can "bump" discussions if you want. but, if you do, you are just adding a couple of days to the time we'll take to answer your question.

see, we always answer everything here in strict order from oldest to newest (unless one user posts excessively, in which case we'll often skip some of that user's posts in order to be fair to other users).
so, if you "bump" something, you're moving it to last in the queue. probably not what you are trying to accomplish here.


duyng9989 Wrote:I have a question about the subgroup modifier.


i don't know what a "subgroup modifier" is (and i would suggest that you have the wrong priorities if you are thinking too much about this kind of terminology), but i will attempt to answer the question(s) anyway.

"Ron adopted two dog, each only 100 pounds" (I eliminate the verb Weights"???


first of all, "two dog" is wrong; it needs to be "two dogs".
(this is not actually tested on the gmat, but it's one of the most fundamental building blocks of the english language; in fact, it's one of the earliest pieces of grammar to be mastered by small children who grow up speaking english. so, if you want a career involving lots of professional correspondence with english speakers, you should definitely learn the distinctions between singular and plural nouns. not necessarily right at this exact moment ... but at some point.)

second, no, you can't write that, for reasons that i will explain below.

This question elaborates for question:

Chinese, the most ancient of living writing systems, consists of tens of thousands of ideographic characters, each character a miniature calligraphic composition inside its own square frame (correct)

This sentence is very similar to Ron's dog example. It does not contain main verb TO BE.

Is it correct to say:

Chinese, the most ancient of living writing systems, consists of 10 of thousands of ideographic characters, each of which IS a miniature calligraphic composition inside its own square frame?


sure, you could do either of those.

note: in the former construction, the only verb that it's acceptable to omit is a form of "to be" (is, are, were, was, etc.)
so, ... two dogs, each 100 pounds is unacceptable, because you can't write "each dog is 100 pounds".
by contrast, ... two dogs, each a mix of several breeds is perfectly acceptable, because "each dog is a mix of several breeds" is correct and sensible.

finally, 100 pounds is awfully heavy for a dog, so "only 100 pounds" makes little sense in context. (it's like saying "Jack is only seven feet tall." --> ???)
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Re: Laos has a land area

by davidfrank Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:21 am

StaceyKoprince Wrote:
The OG suggested that in C "the reference of them is unclear" would you please explain how?


What is "them" referring to? It can't be referring to either country; a country would take a singular pronoun. Logically, it should be referring to Laotians, or Laotian people... but those words are not in the sentence.


Hi Stacy,

Few questions on the explanations provided by you. You mentioned that "them" has no referent.
1.My question is why can't them refer to people.
2. In option E if I replace relative pronoun "whom" with object pronoun "them" how would a sentence have a run run-on error.
3. Why is "four million in population" not idiomatic. I mean what is the correct way of expressing population and why.

Thanks in advance. I know my questions can be too basic but please help. A little explanation from you could do wonders for me.
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Re: Laos has a land area

by aravind.guduru Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:00 am

@Ron,

Please clarify the above mentioned queries.

Thx in advance