Many financial experts believe that policy makers2

[violetwind]

This problem is actually the same one at many-financial-experts-believe-that-policy-makers-t8474.html

but somehow I can't post reply there, so I start a new thread.

Many financial experts believe that policy makers at the Federal Reserve, now viewing the economy as balanced between moderate growth and low inflation, are almost certain to leave interest rates unchanged for the foreseeable future.

A. Reserve, now viewing the economy as balanced between moderate growth and low inflation, are
B. Reserve, now viewing the economy to be balanced between that of moderate growth and low inflation and are
C. Reserve who, now viewing the economy as balanced between moderate growth and low inflation, are
D. Reserve, who now view the economy to be balanced between that of moderate growth and low inflation, will be
E. Reserve, which now views the economy to be balanced between moderate growth and low inflation, is

I'm confused at the "that of" construction among the choises.

Ron said the "that" doesn't refer to anything, but when I first saw this problem, I even was very confirmed that there should be a "that" to refer to "economy", is it wrong? I think we should say the economy of slow infalation and the economy of moderate growth

Also I'm wondering ,in "that of A and that of B" construction, can the second "that of" omitted?

Thanks in advance!

[RonPurewal]

Ron said the "that" doesn't refer to anything, but when I first saw this problem, I even was very confirmed that there should be a "that" to refer to "economy", is it wrong? I think we should say the economy of slow infalation and the economy of moderate growth

if you're going to say that this pronoun is correct, then you have to be able to literally substitute the noun that you think it stands for. in this case, this means that you have to be able to take the word "economy" and substitute it into the pronoun.
if you do that, you get
view the economy to be balanced between the economy of moderate growth and...
at best, this is redundant (note that redundancy is still an error); at worst, it's illogical.

Also I'm wondering ,in "that of A and that of B" construction, can the second "that of" omitted?

nope. (that's another error here.)

if you write "that of A and B", the only way in which this can be logically interpreted is "that of (A and B)", i.e., ONE item that belongs to both A and B.
this is a massive shift of meaning from "that of A and that of B", a construction that indicates two separate items.

[vijitgpt]

Hi Ron,

Isn't that the +ing after the comma if acts as noun modifier,modifies the subject of the preceding clause.

The man was feeding a dog,fuming at the world.

Thanks,
Vijit

Ron said the "that" doesn't refer to anything, but when I first saw this problem, I even was very confirmed that there should be a "that" to refer to "economy", is it wrong? I think we should say the economy of slow infalation and the economy of moderate growth

if you're going to say that this pronoun is correct, then you have to be able to literally substitute the noun that you think it stands for. in this case, this means that you have to be able to take the word "economy" and substitute it into the pronoun.
if you do that, you get
view the economy to be balanced between the economy of moderate growth and...
at best, this is redundant (note that redundancy is still an error); at worst, it's illogical.

Also I'm wondering ,in "that of A and that of B" construction, can the second "that of" omitted?

nope. (that's another error here.)

if you write "that of A and B", the only way in which this can be logically interpreted is "that of (A and B)", i.e., ONE item that belongs to both A and B.
this is a massive shift of meaning from "that of A and that of B", a construction that indicates two separate items.

[RonPurewal]

Hi Ron,

Isn't that the +ing after the comma if acts as noun modifier,modifies the subject of the preceding clause.

The man was feeding a dog,fuming at the world.

That kind of modifier must describe the subject+action. If it's not related to the action, it's incorrect.

E.g.,
Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor, scaring the dog.
--> "Scaring the dog" describes the entire subject+action, "Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor". Correct.

Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor, standing about 6 feet tall.
--> Even if Marcus is about 6 feet tall, this sentence is still incorrect. There's no relationship between his height and the action of dropping the groceries.
If you wanted to write this sentence (I can't imagine why you would), you'd have to put the modifier on "Marcus":
Marcus, who stands about 6 feet tall, dropped the groceries onto the floor.

Of course, comma+ing must actually follow a clause to have this function.
If it doesn't -- if it follows only a noun (maybe with modifiers), but not an action -- then it just modifies the noun.
The driver of the sedan, looking down at his phone, didn't see the cat running into the road.

[vijitgpt]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for brilliant explanation.
So to summarize,if we have a +ing modifier after the comma,it can work in two ways-

1. Modifying the entire clause(cause and effect)
Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor, scaring the dog

2.Modifying a single noun

Many financial experts believe that policy makers at the federal reserve,now viewing the economy as balanced between moderate and low inflation, are almost certain that to leave interest rates unchanged.

OR
Marcus,standing 6 feet tall, dropped the groceries onto the floor

Thanks,
Vijit

Hi Ron,

Isn't that the +ing after the comma if acts as noun modifier,modifies the subject of the preceding clause.

The man was feeding a dog,fuming at the world.

That kind of modifier must describe the subject+action. If it's not related to the action, it's incorrect.

E.g.,
Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor, scaring the dog.
--> "Scaring the dog" describes the entire subject+action, "Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor". Correct.

Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor, standing about 6 feet tall.
--> Even if Marcus is about 6 feet tall, this sentence is still incorrect. There's no relationship between his height and the action of dropping the groceries.
If you wanted to write this sentence (I can't imagine why you would), you'd have to put the modifier on "Marcus":
Marcus, who stands about 6 feet tall, dropped the groceries onto the floor.

[RonPurewal]

Right.

But, make sure you realize that those 2 functions are completely different and mutually exclusive. If the modifier comes after something that's a whole sentence, then it's #1. If it comes after just a noun, then it's #2.

E.g., "Marcus dropped the groceries onto the floor" is a complete sentence. "Policy makers at the federal reserve" is just a noun (plus a modifier).

[RonPurewal]

By the way --
In the latter case, note that
People believe that...
Person X said that...
etc.
... can be neglected when you consider grammar points.


In fact, you can stick those things in front of any sentence in the whole world, including this one.
People believe that, in fact, you can stick those things in front of any sentence in the whole world, including this one.
Person X said that you can stick those things in front of any sentence in the whole world, including this one.

[RonPurewal]

...And, don't forget, comma + "including" doesn't count as a comma+ing modifier. If you have comma + "including", it should describe the noun (or noun+modifier) in front of it, not the whole idea.

E.g.,
To pass the fitness test I had to perform a variety of exercises, including pull-ups, push-ups, and a one-mile run.
--> Here, "including x, y, and z" is just describing (a variety of) exercises.

[gauravtyagigmat]

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.

Ron you earlier told me "falling" in above sentence is acting as a noun , but "falling" seems verb to me (in above sentence).
Please correct me how can i perceive "ing" correctly

sometimes ING modifier act to display results of previous clause and sometimes it modifies some noun .
How do i judge what role ING modifier is playing.Is there a method to identify correct use of ING modifier



Crime has recently decresed in our neighbourhood, leading to a rise in property values
"ING showing result" reference MGMAT SC

Even sometimes "ing" acts as a noun or verb
how can i understand which role ing is playing

I have posted same question at
[url]post91304.html#p91304[/url] but Ron said my question is irrelevent here so i posted here as well
Excuse me for this because I am not sure in which post am i suppose to post

[RonPurewal]

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.

Ron you earlier told me "falling" in above sentence is acting as a noun , but "falling" seems verb to me (in above sentence).
Please correct me how can i perceive "ing" correctly

"__ing" is NEVER a verb. It's either a noun or a modifier.
If you can replace it in the same construction with a noun, then it's a noun.
If you can replace it with a modifier, then it's a modifier.

I went to the hospital after school.
I went to the hospital after breaking a bone.
I can substitute "breaking a bone" for "school", so "breaking..." is acting as a noun.

[gauravtyagigmat]

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling over the last two years.

Ron you earlier told me "falling" in above sentence is acting as a noun , but "falling" seems verb to me (in above sentence).
Please correct me how can i perceive "ing" correctly

"__ing" is NEVER a verb. It's either a noun or a modifier.
If you can replace it in the same construction with a noun, then it's a noun.
If you can replace it with a modifier, then it's a modifier.

I went to the hospital after school.
I went to the hospital after breaking a bone.
I can substitute "breaking a bone" for "school", so "breaking..." is acting as a noun.

ok..
When ing can be replaced by noun then it is noun otherwise ing acts as a modifier

"__ing" is NEVER a verb.

My understanding was __ing form can also acts as verb in participle form. Because of concept mention in last sentence
I usually get confused when __ing form is acting as a noun modifier or verb modifier

Please let me know is my understanding correct.
How do I check whether __ing modifier is modifying noun or verb

[RonPurewal]

How do I check whether __ing modifier is modifying noun or verb

Here are the basics:

If it doesn't follow a comma, it modifies a noun.
I saw the pictures hanging on the wall.

If it follows a whole sentence and a comma, it modifies the action of that sentence.
I dropped the groceries onto the floor, scaring the dog.

If it follows a comma, but there's only a noun in front of the comma, then it modifies the noun.
Tom, running to catch the bus, tripped and fell onto the concrete.

[mondegreen]

...And, don't forget, comma + "including" doesn't count as a comma+ing modifier. If you have comma + "including", it should describe the noun (or noun+modifier) in front of it, not the whole idea.

E.g.,
To pass the fitness test I had to perform a variety of exercises, including pull-ups, push-ups, and a one-mile run.
--> Here, "including x, y, and z" is just describing (a variety of) exercises.

What are you? a machine? :)

[RonPurewal]

If I were a machine, I would buy a lot of new parts for myself.

[gauravtyagigmat]

How do I check whether __ing modifier is modifying noun or verb

Here are the basics:

If it doesn't follow a comma, it modifies a noun.
[i]I saw the pictures hanging on the wall.

When you say it modifies noun
Does that means ing refers to immediately preceding noun when it is not followed by comma?