Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount

[nandsharma]

The administration has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their campaign to protect miners.
has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their
have increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their
has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of its
has increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of its
have increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of their


Between C&D, I chose D.
Official explanation for D: "However, the use of "amount" is incorrect. "Amount is used for uncountable quantities. "Fines" are countable, and so "number" should be used."

Why is it wrong to say "amount of fines"? The administration could have increased the amount for existing fines: for ex, the fines were increased from $100 to $200.
Is it because the original sentence talks about the "number of fines" and hence we should stick with that?

[sunny.jain]

i think
"amount of fine" is wrong. Because fine is countable item.

Value of fine is correct usage.for eg: value of fine was 500$.
But most of places, it's wrongly used as "amount of fine is 500$".

On the very first attempt even i choose "Option D", then i googled on google scholar by "amount of fine" and "value of fine".

Amount of fine has few results as compare with number of results with value of fine.

[abhasjha]

Is it correct to say " the number of fines " ???

As much as i know - "the number of " always takes a singular referent and A number of " will take a plural referent .

Is not "fines " plural and if it so how can we say "the number of fines" ....

This in my opinion renders Option C incorrect ......

instructutors could you please have a look at it .

[anoo.anand]

has increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of

D is correct here...

Fine meanls a penalty... amount means...the amount of money in that penalty..

so amount should be used.

[gorav.s]

Given the choices C seems the best. For the same reason that we should stick to the original meaning of sentence - which seems to suggest that total number of fines shall be increased and not the value of the fine.

Also "the number " as rightly pointed out here - as also present in the Manhattan SC guide - is singular here.

So there is nothing wrong in saying - Admnistration has increased the number . What is the problem here, - it seems fine to me.

[RonPurewal]

Why is it wrong to say "amount of fines"? The administration could have increased the amount for existing fines: for ex, the fines were increased from $100 to $200.

i hear you on this, but you'd still have a singular/plural problem.

if you're talking about ONE fine amount, as you do here, then you would say "amount (sing.) of the fine (sing.)".

if you're talking about several different levels of fines, then you would say "amounts (sing.) of the fines (sing.)".

[induskakade]

Thanks for the explanation!

While C is correct when we intend to convey the meaning that it is the number of fines. However if i want to convey that it is the amount that has increased, amount fits in fine with the sentence.

Isnt this sentence confusing unless author indicates somewhere down the line in the sentence that it is the number and not amount that we are referring to?

Because both usages are correct--> there should be more clarity

[RonPurewal]

Thanks for the explanation!

While C is correct when we intend to convey the meaning that it is the number of fines. However if i want to convey that it is the amount that has increased, amount fits in fine with the sentence.

Isnt this sentence confusing unless author indicates somewhere down the line in the sentence that it is the number and not amount that we are referring to?

Because both usages are correct--> there should be more clarity

hi --

take a look at the post directly above yours. in that post, i explained the problem with choice (d). yes, the usage is fine, but you still have an issue with singular and plural in that choice.

[lastavalon]

Given the choices C seems the best. For the same reason that we should stick to the original meaning of sentence - which seems to suggest that total number of fines shall be increased and not the value of the fine.

Also "the number " as rightly pointed out here - as also present in the Manhattan SC guide - is singular here.

So there is nothing wrong in saying - Admnistration has increased the number . What is the problem here, - it seems fine to me.

Well, we don't know here whether there are one or several levels of fines. You could have one category of fines for mining safety violations. In this case, couldn't we choose "the amount of fines"? Or would we really have to say "the amount of the fines"? (I'm not a native English speaker, this is a bit tricky for me - sorry to raise that question again).

The first thing I thought when I read this sentence is: the administration is not supposed to decide the number of fines. In my country, France, it is even a regular controversial topic. And as GMAT is politically correct, this sentence was surprising to me. Therefore, when I saw "amount", it sounded like the right word straight away; then,
- I thought about the plural thing
- but privileged the meaning because grammar is still ok if there is one level of fines : the amount of fines... Am I wrong?

[tim]

first, don't bring outside knowledge into a verbal question. this is a perfect example of where that can get you into trouble!

let's say you are correct that there is only one category of fine. then the sentence should say "fine" rather than "fines", and Ron's analysis of the singular/plural issue is still the determining factor in this question..

[sri213]

It is a knee-jerk response to state that since one must use 'number' when referring to a quantifiable 'object', one MUST do so when referring to 'fines', regardless of context...

At the outset, the 'correct' sentence appears to convey that the administration has increased the 'number of fines' for mining safety violations as 'part of its campaign' to protect miners, which then leads the reader to infer (without sufficient basis) that there has been a greater number of infractions. Absent such basis, 'amount of fines' more accurately suggests that the administration's campaign to protect miners includes 'larger' fines to additionally detract violators. If one must exclude all outside knowledge from the argument, then one must do so without exemption.

Secondly, the use of 'amount' of fines does not controvert the singular/plural subject/verb paradigm. It may well be that the administration only has a single fine structure in place and it has elected to increase the amount of that 'fine' in order to further deter violators. And since multiple fines to multiple 'violations' may be issued, 'amount of fines' is absolutely acceptable if not 'THE' correct response.

Therefore, given this context, 'amount of fines' is the correct usage and I'm afraid the test (and one of MGMAT's instructors) has it wrong. I categorically reject the 'number' argument and want my 10 percentile points. or whatever it equates to, back (even though it was only on a practice exam). :)

I do hope that the real exam will not carry such controversial questions.

[tim]

if you insist that "amount of fines" has a valid meaning (and i'm inclined to agree with you on that point), then we have two competing and valid interpretations. at that point, we look to how well the expressions themselves hold up in the sentence. when i say that the "number of fines" increased, everyone knows what i'm talking about and there is no obviously clearer way to express this. on the other hand, if i say the "amount of fines" has increased (and truly mean "amount"), this is unidiomatic, and it would be preferable instead to say "the dollar amount of fines" or the "amount of money collected in fines" or something that adds a level of clarity lacking in "amount of fines"..

[adm45]

I thought this question was about this question was focused on "increased the amount" v. "increased the number"? Can "increased" refer to "amount" or "number", and how do you determine that? is there some rule like countable vs. uncountable? Thanks!

[jlucero]

I thought this question was about this question was focused on "increased the amount" v. "increased the number"? Can "increased" refer to "amount" or "number", and how do you determine that? is there some rule like countable vs. uncountable? Thanks!

You can increase the number of items or you can increase the amount of a (non-countable) thing. The issue is whether the X in "number/amount of X" is countable or not.