Next steps after 2nd CAT exam results

[connieyip11]

Hi there.

I am taking the Guided Self-Prep course and just took my 2nd CAT exam after having gone through 6 of the sessions. Unfortunately, I did not score significantly higher than my diagnostic, which was a 580. The one positive outcome from the exam is that I was able to finish all of the questions without too much stress for time. In fact, I had just a few minutes at the end to spare, so I could have spent some more time on a few problems.

I did notice that I have forgotten a lot of the material that I had learned earlier in the course and unfortunately, that's where most of the CAT exam focused on.

Currently, I am going through the course material by each section, but I haven't revisited and practice problems that I had covered in previous sessions. During the first few courses, I didn't feel like I was completely comprehending the material, so I did most of the supplementary problems in the OG problem sets. Now I'm thinking that I may need a way to be able to mix up the problems I'm doing so that I can retain what I learned before.

I have a little over a month before my scheduled exam. Do you have any advice on (1) how to change my study routines based on these results and (2) what are suggested ways to come up with mixed problem sets so that I can try to retain all the information I've learned. I was also thinking to use one of the 30-minute private instructor sessions to analyze my progress and see how I need to go from here so that I can improve my score in the 3rd diagnostic (which is in 2-3 sessions based on the syllabus). I'm not sure if this would be the best use of the sessions or not, so please advise.

Thank you!

Connie

[StaceyKoprince]

That's fairly common (to score about the same - sometimes even lower!) on the 2nd exam, halfway (or partway) through the materials. As you're discovering, when you spend all your time focused on learning new stuff, you don't have a ton of time available for review.

Others discover that they mess up their timing - but it sounds like your timing is generally moving in the right direction. Actually, it's also common for people with "too slow" timing problems to then go too fast the next time (your second test), so the third time, you should find that you're starting to find the right balance between spending enough time and not spending too much time. :)

Let's see - you still have 3 weeks' worth of sessions to go and you're telling me that your test is in a month. Do you have the flexibility to give yourself another 2-3 weeks? You are going to need to review after you finish the "main" course and it's not a great idea to rush that part of things (or any part!).

So if you do have that flexibility, I'd recommend postponing your test to give yourself adequate time to deal with the review phase.

Re: specific advice to change your study routines based on your test results, I'll need more detailed data on your strengths and weaknesses. Use the below to analyze your most recent MGMAT CAT(s):
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/

Then come back here and tell us the results of your analysis and what you think you should do based on that analysis. We'll tell you whether we agree and advise you further. (Note: do share an analysis with us, not just the raw data. Part of getting better is developing your ability to analyze your results - figure out what they mean and what you think you should do about them!)

I also think it's a great idea to use one of your private sessions to go over this data and figure out what to do - what I'd recommend is that you do the exercise I describe above first so that you have an idea of what you want to discuss. (And, if you want, also wait till after you've heard what I have to say.) That way you'll get the most efficient use out of the live session with a tutor.

Re: mixed problem sets - you're far enough along that all problem sets should be "mixed" at this point. Let's say that you just finished the rates chapter in the Word Problems book. Do a couple of OG rate problems (not more than a couple). Keep doing that with the remaining chapters in the book.

Then, at the end, do a problem set of maybe 10 questions that consists primarily of questions from that book (6-7 questions) but also of some questions from previous books. The next time you do a new book, repeat. Once you're done with all of the books, all problem sets from then on will be mixed among all of the books.

[connieyip11]

Hi Stacey.

Thank you so much for your response and advice. I actually started doing a lot of supplementary problem set questions at the end of each section because I was not feeling completely confident in my understanding after performing the HW questions. However, after taking this CAT, I can see how that impeded my ability to retain the information from the prior sessions. I like the suggestion to mix up just a few problems from each section before, so I'll start doing that now.

I finished assessing my results, and this is the assessment I have come up with:

Quant:
My weakest sections were Number Properties and Word Problems. In general, I have forgotten the strategies and material I had learned from the beginning of the course. I also feel like I need a bit more practice on translating word problems.

I also noticed that I was not able to break past the 600-700 questions. This was the range where the majority of my errors occurred.

I also did worse on problem solving than on data sufficiency (45% vs. 53%) However, the average difficulty of PS vs. DS problems I was getting correct is 620 vs. 580.

There really is no pattern with timing and my performance, so I actually think I could possibly better manage my time on some of the lower range questions to make sure I have a better change of getting them right.

Verbal
My weakest area is Critical Reasoning (43% correct), especially Weaken the Argument questions. I spent a fair amount of time on the CR questions I answered incorrectly, from 30-60 seconds beyond 2 minutes. However, the average time I spent on CR problems I got incorrectly was 2:17, so that doesn't seem as bad.

I got 75% of the RC questions correct, however the average difficulty for correct answers is 570 and the average difficulty for incorrect answers was 720. The inference questions were where I struggled in RC, which makes correlates with my performance on CR.

Lastly, I scored 47% of PS problems, with an average difficulty for correct and incorrect answers of 690 and 730, respectively. I feel like this is an area that that I am stronger at, so I'm wondering what is the best way to maintain and improve my performance here.

Based on this assessment, my plan is:

- Go back to Quant areas where I know I forgot how to approach those questions and re-read the materials and do some practice problems.
- Integrate a couple word problems in every problem set I do so that I become more confident on how I translate them.
- Focus on the low numbered questions so I can master the middle range
- Practice advanced sentence correction questions
- Start using the Manhattan flashcards on my phone and start making additional ones for other areas I want to remember

What do you think of my thoughts above? Am I on the right track or way off target? I'd love any additional suggestions you think would be helpful.

I'm unsure how to improve in the CR section aside from doing practice problems. Do you have any suggestions here?

I do have the flexibility to push out my test if I need to. As of now, I have about 6 weeks to go. I'll definitely consider whether I should postpone the test a couple weeks to allow sufficient time to review. In general, how much time is recommended for review after finishing the course?

Thank you again SO much for your help. I'm so glad that this forum is here for me to ask these questions since I don't have a live instructor to go to class to.

Thanks,
Connie

[StaceyKoprince]

Good analysis.

One question - under your verbal review, you talk about PS questions in your 3rd paragraph - I'm assuming you meant to type SC, yes? Just want to be sure. :)

QUANT
DS and PS look relatively even, given the different difficulty levels - not concerned there. Did you not have any questions over 2.5m (and especially over 3m) on quant? If so, that timing imbalance could have caused some of the issues that you saw on other questions (we make more mistakes / mess up more when we're rushing).

If your mistakes started to pick up in the 600-700 range, then concentrate for now on the 500-700 range. For the ones you're mostly answering correctly now, figure out how to work very systematically (to minimize any careless errors going forward) and figure out whether you can find more efficient ways to do the problem (to save some time without sacrificing accuracy). Those two skills will also help you on the 600+ / harder problems.

Also, make a distinction between problems that you got wrong for "careless mistake" reasons (but you really did know how to do them) and ones you got wrong for "content / skill" reasons - you really didn't know the material or have the skills to tackle the necessary work. The remedies are different depending on those causes.

Have you done NP yet? You mentioned not being completely through the material, and NP is the last of the 5 books - so maybe the issue there is just that you haven't learned that material yet. Also, within NP, divis and prime, odd, even, pos, and neg are more important. Combinatorics and probability are not important (not frequently tested) - answer any that you can, but guess and move on without losing time when they get too hard.

When you feel ready, you can try some of the NP articles here:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -gmatprep/

You mentioned some translation issues - see whether anything in this article will help:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... into-Math/

I spent a fair amount of time on the CR questions I answered incorrectly, from 30-60 seconds beyond 2 minutes. However, the average time I spent on CR problems I got incorrectly was 2:17, so that doesn't seem as bad.

Wait, no! Wrong conclusion. :) When you spend extra time on some problems, that time has to come from somewhere else. So, often, overall averages will end up looking okay - but what you really have is a mix of way-too-slow questions and way-too-fast questions.

If you know, in particular, that when you spend 2m30s to 3m on certain questions and you mostly get those wrong - you need to get them wrong faster and spend that time elsewhere. Go figure out what the common threads are in those questions so that you can recognize faster when you don't know what you're doing.

Have you done the CR Strengthen / Weaken chapters yet? Those don't get assigned until class 8 - so, again, maybe that weakness is just a function of sequence.

For CR, start with the 4 steps:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... g-problem/

Make yourself one flash card (or one piece of note paper) for each question type. Fill out the 4 steps for each question type.
eg:
How to ID a Find the Assumption Question (step 1):
- (list actual clues that will tell you it's FA)
- (ditto)

Step 2: expect to find a conclusion and to brainstorm assumptions

Step 3: on FA questions, I want to....

Step 4: the correct answer should (have which characteristics)? Trap answers will often (have which characteristics)?

Get to the point where, if I pointed at you and said, "Strengthen!" you'd be able to rattle off the characteristics for each step. :)

For RC, the difficulty levels often skew lower because, even if you're doing well, you often have a main idea question that's a bit lower than the others, etc. So don't worry about that.

Check out this article for RC infer:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/articles/a ... estion.cfm

For SC, you were dealing with very high difficulty questions, so I'm not as concerned that you had "only" 47% correct. You could probably use some work on more complicated sentences and sentence structures, though - check this out:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... orrection/

Finally, I love your plan - spot on. Keep track of your progress and check back in here. Do let me know on the quant timing issues though - I just want to make sure that there aren't any hidden timing issues, because that can really impede your progress. Great work!

[connieyip11]

Hey Stacey.

Thank you again for your advice. I'm glad to hear that I'm on the right track. As far as the timing on quant questions, I did have some questions that were above the 2.5 minute mark, so I may have rushed on some other questions to ensure I didn't fall back too far behind. However, I do remember that I had a fair amount of time towards the end of the test, so I took extra time on the last few questions since I had that time.

I'll be sure to work on my timing of the quant questions a bit more to make sure that I'm working through the questions I know I have a smaller chance of getting right in a quicker pace.

I'll keep you updated with my progress as I continue with finishing the material and taking my 3rd CAT exam. Thanks!

Connie

[StaceyKoprince]

Okay - so either way, you've got some timing issues. :) It's just as much of a problem to go too quickly, because that increases the incidence of careless mistakes. So you've got some work to do on developing the proper balance there.

Good luck!

[connieyip11]

Hi Stacey.

I just took my 3rd CAT and I wanted to share my analysis with you to get your thoughts on my assessment.

Overall, I felt much more comfortable this time around and was able to bump my score from 590 to 640. I did have significant time management issues this time around, which I'll detail in the sections below.

Quant
The average difficulties for right answers for PS and DS were 700 and 710, respectively. The average difficulties for wrong PS and DS were 740 and 730, respectively. I was able to manage to stay within the range, but I had HUGE timing issues with PS problems. Even though the average times for right and difficult problems were 2:16 and 2:30, there were several instances where i went spent over 3 minutes on a problem. There were several problems where I had a good idea of how to approach the problem, but I got stuck while trying to figure out the problem, resulting in me spending way too much time on the question. This all snowballed, and I was left with 6-7 questions at the end with approximately 5 minutes to go. A lot of the content areas that I did poorly in were aligned with the questions that I rushed at the end. Do you have any suggestions on how to fix the timing issue here? I know that I should be able to recognize problems that I won't solve right away, but I got stuck with the questions that I had a good idea of how to solve the problem, but got lost in the process of solving the question.

One thing I noticed is that the Pick Smart Numbers method takes a long time. I recognized that I use up a lot of time when I have to plug in numbers to each of the answer choices. Do you have any recommendations on how to speed this process up? I know that sometimes it's suggested to start with C, but I don't find that this method is always applicable.

I did better on DS questions. I got 67% of them correct and was able to stay within the appropriate 2 minute time slot for most of the questions.

I still feel like some additional practice will help me solidify how to approach content areas and certain strategies, so I definitely plan on doing several practice problems to get this nailed down.

Verbal
Critical Reasoning was my downfall again in the Verbal section. The average times for right and wrong answers were 1:40 and 2:38. The average difficulties for right and wrong answers were 530 and 690. I think I need to work on my timing on CR questions still. I feel like I spend a lot of time trying to understand the argument and re-assessing what the question is asking for. There were many instances where I was unable to identify the gap to come up with some ideas of possible assumptions. Any additional advice here aside from the link that you sent me last time? Is this just a matter of more practice to get the timing down?

MY SC was fine, but the range was lower this time. I got 80% of the questions correct and stayed within 1:30 minutes for most questions, but the majority of the questions I received were in the 600-700 range. I figure this is because of how I performed on the RC/CR questions that precede these SC questions, but I think I'm still doing OK in this area.

Lastly, RC was all right. I feel like I just need more practice with RC questions since I haven't practiced RC questions in a while. My average difficulties for right and wrong questions were 650 and 700. When I went through the RC questions, I just felt like there were certain details that I missed due to being tired, or just reading too fast.

IR
I wanted your input on an average score I should aim for in IR. I haven't spent much time here since I've been focusing on Quant and Verbal, as recommended by Manhattan. However, the scores I'm coming up with are very low. I scored a 3 during this test, and a 1 during the previous test. Even though the schools don't know exactly how to interpret these results yet, I want to have something that's at least presentable. Do you have any suggestions on how to improve here without having to spend too much time here given the significance of the quant and verbal sections?

Next steps
I'm in the process of wrapping up the last session and then plan to start practicing the remaining OG problems as well as the OG Verbal and Quant books. I'm hoping that the additional practice will help me get my time management in better shape. I usually do the HW problems with the OG archer so I usually stay within the time since the clock resets during each questions. Do you have any other suggestions on how to work on my time management?

I plan to do more practice problems for RC and SC to continue to improve. I'm stuck on how to improve my performance on CR. Would this be an area where I could spend 30 minutes with an instructor? If I did use a private office hour, how would that time be used to help me improve on CR?

During my last post, Stacey recommended that I consider pushing out my test date a few weeks to give myself enough time to review. Now that I have finished my 3rd CAT test and have one more session with 3 weeks to go, I realize that I do need additional time to practice and review. What is the recommended amount of time to review and work towards improving your score? I had read a Manhattan article that you want to be within your desired score range within 10-14 days of your score. Is the goal to get through all of the problems in all OG books and all of the CATs? If I finish the last session and all of the hw this week, I was thinking that maybe I need 5 weeks to practice and review. Any advice you have here will be helpful so I know when to reschedule my exam.

Thank you in advance for everything. I look forward to your input on my thoughts above. :)

[StaceyKoprince]

Nice work! Definitely need to tackle those timing issues next.

Read this:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -to-do-it/

The short answer: you've got to let those go. It doesn't matter that you studied something and "should" know how to do it. If it's not happening RIGHT NOW... let it go.

And then:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... to-win-it/
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... nt-part-1/

One thing I noticed is that the Pick Smart Numbers method takes a long time. I recognized that I use up a lot of time when I have to plug in numbers to each of the answer choices. Do you have any recommendations on how to speed this process up? I know that sometimes it's suggested to start with C, but I don't find that this method is always applicable.

You're mixing up two different techniques - which tells me that you're slow here because you haven't done enough practice to know what the different techniques are and how best to use them. :)

There are two broad techniques:
1) Pick your own numbers (where the problem never gives "real" numbers, just variables or percentages or fractions)
2) Use the answers (where the problem does give real numbers); on these ones, it's best to start with answer B or D.

When picking your own, there are two broad categories:
1a) using Smart Numbers, where you only need to pick one set and that should lead to the one correct answer. That's this technique:
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... rithmetic/

1b) testing Theory or testing Cases, where you may need to test multiple sets of numbers in order to narrow down the answers. This is most useful when they ask "must be true" questions or ask things like "is x odd?" Basically, there are many possibilities for the actual numbers, and you're testing multiple cases to understand how the problem is really working. This article gives an example of testing cases:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/inde ... on-hiding/

Every time you practice a problem on which you *could* use one of these techniques, make sure to try it. If you want to use algebra while the clock is ticking, that's fine. Afterwards, though, try whatever above technique works, too. Practice and you'll get better / faster!

For CR assumption questions, do take 10-20 seconds to try to brainstorm assumptions, but if you can't, just move on. Don't spend a ton of time there.

Also, don't spend a ton of time agonizing between multiple answers. Cross off everything you're confident is wrong, then compare whatever remains, then guess.

Afterwards, go back and take the time to try to understand why the tempting wrong answers were tempting (that is, why they looked like they might be right) and why the right answer looked like it might be wrong. Then you'll be in a better position to decide between two tricky answers next time, and next time.

For IR, a lot of people are getting better scores on the real test than on our test. (Though that's not true for everyone.) If you're getting a 3 on ours, chances are you can get a 4 on the real thing, and that's good enough for this year.

Are you skipping any? Plan to skip 3 questions out of the 12 and that'll give you extra time on the ones that you do answer - that'll be easier. :)

Don't practice time management one question at a time - that's too easy. You'll need to do sets of 5, 10, sometimes 15 questions; it's a lot harder to manage across a whole block fo questions. You can also try GMATFocus (www.gmatfocus.com) to help with quant timing.

Yes, if you're stuck in a major area, that'd be a good place to use your office hour time. You and the teacher would use it however you needed - so you'd want to come into the session with a pretty good idea of what's troubling you, because 30 minutes isn't much time. Are you struggling primarily with Assumption Family questions? That level - you wouldn't want to start just by saying "I'm struggling with all of CR."

It's not possible, unfortunately, for us to know how much time someone will need to reach a certain score goal or to achieve a certain score improvement. It's different for every person. Unless you have a particular deadline, it's best just to keep going and making progress until your score* starts to get close to the scoring range that you want. (*on a practice test taken under 100% official conditions) Then you can assume that you're within 2 to 4 weeks of being able to take the real test. :)

You're at 640. What are you going for?

[connieyip11]

Thanks for all of the feedback, Stacey.

I'm aiming for 690-700.

[StaceyKoprince]

okay, so you're not too too far away. :)

At least 3 weeks, bare minimum. Probably more like 6 to 8. Possibly longer depending on how much you're studying and how effectively.

Let us know how it goes!