SC: Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty

[cesar.rodriguez.blanco]

I have problems to see the mistakes in this SC. Please help!
I think that B is the answer

Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D, 581-618), the Altar
of Heaven is the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice,
more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing, it is the only altar
found so far that predates the Qing dynasty (A.D. 1644-1912).
A. Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of Heaven is the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing, it is
B. Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of
Heaven, the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more
than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing and is
C. The Altar of Heaven, having been constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618) and the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing and
D. The Altar of Heaven, which was constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty
(A.D. 581-618) and is the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious
practice, more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing and is
E. The oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, more than 1,000
years older than a similar one in Beijing, the Altar of Heaven, which was
constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618) and is

[ayushrastogi82]

A. Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of Heaven is the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing, it is

the Altar of Heaven is...., it is.... makes a run-on sentence joining two imdependent clauses without a conjuction.

B. Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of
Heaven, the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more
than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing and is

Correct.
Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618) - participle phrase modifying noun 'the Altar of Heaven'
the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice - appositive phrase again modifying preceding noun 'the Altar of Heaven'

Main clause is 'the Altar of Heaven....,is more and is...' concise and maintains parallelism.

Though I have one doubt here. 'the Altar of Heaven....,is more and [is]...' is also correct ([is] elipsis)?

C. The Altar of Heaven, having been constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618) and the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing and

'having been constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618) and the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice' is joined with conjuction 'and', so both must use the same verb form, which is not in this case.

D. The Altar of Heaven, which was constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty
(A.D. 581-618) and is the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious
practice, more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing and is

'more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing' incorrectly modifying Chinese state religious practice. Other errors as well.

E. The oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, more than 1,000
years older than a similar one in Beijing, the Altar of Heaven, which was
constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618) and is

'The oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, more than 1,000
years older than a similar one in Beijing' - two back to back modifiers making unclear that what more than 1,000 years is modifying

Hope this helps!!

[ayushrastogi82]

Please post OA, thanks!!

[cesar.rodriguez.blanco]

OA is B, but it is not the issue.
The issue is to recognize what are the errors in the different answer choices!

[ayushrastogi82]

OA is B, but it is not the issue.
The issue is to recognize what are the errors in the different answer choices!

In my earlier post I identified the errors in each answer choice!! Hope that helps :)

[Ben Ku]

Because this sentence is long with many modifiers, I tried to do two things:
(1) Find all the modifiers, and made sure they are all used correctly, and
(2) Strip away all the modifiers, so the core of the sentence makes sense (this way, you can also identify other issues, like pronouns and subj-verb agreement)

Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D, 581-618), the Altar
of Heaven is the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice,
more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing, it is the only altar
found so far that predates the Qing dynasty (A.D. 1644-1912).

The red phrase ("Constructed ...") properly modifies the Altar of Heaven.
The green phrase ("used in Chinese ...") properly modifies the altar.
The blue phrase ("more than 1000 yrs ...") IMPROPERLY modifies religious practice; this phrase really should modify Altar of Heaven, but is unjustifiably separated far from it.

If we strip away the modifiers, the sentence is:
"The Altar of Heaven is the oldest known altar ... it is the only altar found."
This is a run-on sentence because you are connecting two independent clauses with only a comma; there needs to be a conjunction as well.

(B) correctly places the blue phrase next to the Altar of Heaven, and uses "and" to connect the two clauses.

(C) the two modifiers of the Altar of Heaven ("having been constructed," a participial phrase, and "the oldest known altar," a modified noun phrase) are not parallel. Also, "having been constructed" is wordy and awkward. The conjunction "and" at the end needs to join two verbs, so it should be "and is".

(D) The first part of the sentence ("The Altar ... Beijing and is") does not have a verb.

(E) It's not preferred (though not necessarily incorrect) to start the sentence with two modifying phrases. Also, the first part of the sentence ("The Altar of Heaven ... and is") does not have a verb.

Hope that helps.

[sauravdas1584]

you mentioned for D, that the first part of the sentence does not have a verb.

So is this the split we should be looking for in eliminating choices and narrowing down to choices which start a verb in the first part which are choices A,B & D?

Is there a faster strategy to break down this question?

[mschwrtz]

Not necessarily. In fact, Ben didn't start by focusing on verb issues, but on modifiers.

To tell you the truth, even with the best strategy this question will likely take longer than the 1:15 or so SC questions usually take. When an entire sentence, or almost the entire sentence, is underlined, and everything seems to me moved around in every answer, it can be hard to spot splits.

For such a sentence, if you happen to see a definite identifiable error in A, great, see how the other answers split around that. If not, ask if there any structures that suggest a likely split. That's what Ben did here, but I'll bet it took him more than 1:15.

[yklouk]

The blue phrase ("more than 1000 yrs ...") IMPROPERLY modifies religious practice; this phrase really should modify Altar of Heaven, but is unjustifiably separated far from it.

Hi, Ben Ku,
I have a question about this word.
I've browsed many questions from prep where "more than" is used. I find that "more than" always refers to the core word of a noun phrase when they unrestrictively modify the last noun phrase:
e.g. More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined.
---> more than refers to 20 percent not to fresh water.
so I wanna check if the more than in choice A of this thread's question modifies the oldest known altar or religious practice.

One more thing, is more than an appositive modifier? I got to know "as many as" and "different from" are appositive modifers from RON's previous posts, but I don't know how to judge an appositive modifier. If there is no general principle, I think I'd better memorize cases by rote.

[tim]

what? no. "more than" refers to "300 rivers"; that should be abundantly clear from the sentence. as to your other question, no it is not considered an appositive. appositives are set off by commas and effectively rename the thing they modify. can you point to any specific posts by Ron where he indicates otherwise?

[yklouk]

"more than" refers to "300 rivers"; that should be abundantly clear from the sentence.

thx, tim.
but I think this post from Ron confirms my idea:
more-than-300-rivers-drain-into-t5054.html

here's what's going on here:
"more than all the North American Great Lakes combined" is actually a MODIFIER of "20% of the world's fresh water", which is WITHIN the first MODIFIER. therefore, it's a SUB-modifier, so to speak.

let me try to illustrate it graphically:

More than 300 rivers drain into Siberia's Lake Baikal(, which holds 20 percent of the world's fresh water(, more than all the North American Great Lakes combined)).

the blue modifier modifies stuff that's inside the orange modifier, so it falls within the orbit of the orange modifier; it MUST be removed if the orange modifier is removed (because it has nothing left to modify).

Oh, I got an idea about "more than": which part "more than" is modifying depends on that word following "more than".
e.g #1:
With the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, the United States acquired 828,000 square miles for about four cents an acre, more than doubling its size and bringing its western border within reach of the Pacific Ocean.
as doubling is a present participle, "more than doubling" is acting as adverbial phrase, modifying the whole prior clause.

e.g. #2:
It's his manner I dislike, more than anything else.
as anything is a noun, so more than anything appositively modifies "his manner" --> the core word just in front of it.

umm...is my idea correct? thx, tim!

[tim]

Yes, the function of "more than" depends on what it's attached to in the sentence. In fact, we can see this in the example you brought up, which uses "more than" twice. I focused on "more than 300 rivers" and didn't even see the other use of "more than"; they are definitely functioning differently - one to refer to the rivers as I pointed out (and similar to your Louisiana Purchase example) and one as a comparison as Ron identified (similar to your second example). Good work pulling out these examples BTW; sounds like you've got it..

[saptadeepc]

there are a couple of questions in OG that are incorrect because a NOUN is "sandwiched" in between two modifiers. The correct answer for this question is of a similar construction.

Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of Heaven, the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing and is ...

Anyone - 'am I missing something here ? I dont say the answer is wrong, but the reason to say that a choice is wrong coz of such construction may not be appropriate.

[namnam123]

Because this sentence is long with many modifiers, I tried to do two things:
(1) Find all the modifiers, and made sure they are all used correctly, and
(2) Strip away all the modifiers, so the core of the sentence makes sense (this way, you can also identify other issues, like pronouns and subj-verb agreement)

Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D, 581-618), the Altar
of Heaven is the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice,
more than 1,000 years older than a similar one in Beijing, it is the only altar
found so far that predates the Qing dynasty (A.D. 1644-1912).

The red phrase ("Constructed ...") properly modifies the Altar of Heaven.
The green phrase ("used in Chinese ...") properly modifies the altar.
The blue phrase ("more than 1000 yrs ...") IMPROPERLY modifies religious practice; this phrase really should modify Altar of Heaven, but is unjustifiably separated far from it.

If we strip away the modifiers, the sentence is:
"The Altar of Heaven is the oldest known altar ... it is the only altar found."
This is a run-on sentence because you are connecting two independent clauses with only a comma; there needs to be a conjunction as well.

(B) correctly places the blue phrase next to the Altar of Heaven, and uses "and" to connect the two clauses.

(C) the two modifiers of the Altar of Heaven ("having been constructed," a participial phrase, and "the oldest known altar," a modified noun phrase) are not parallel. Also, "having been constructed" is wordy and awkward. The conjunction "and" at the end needs to join two verbs, so it should be "and is".

(D) The first part of the sentence ("The Altar ... Beijing and is") does not have a verb.

(E) It's not preferred (though not necessarily incorrect) to start the sentence with two modifying phrases. Also, the first part of the sentence ("The Altar of Heaven ... and is") does not have a verb.

Hope that helps.

I wish to discuss why C is wrong. Hope, members join.

C means "having been CONSTRUCTED and having been THE ALTER" . The matter is CONSTRUCTED can not parallel with "ALTER" and C is wrong.

I learn this from Stacey. I call this PARALLEL AFTER TO BE.

[namnam123]

I mean after TO BE you can use noun and noun or you can use participle and participle but you can not use participle and noun. For example

I am a boy and an rich man. noun and noun

I am tired and disappointed. participle and participl

I am a boy and tired . WRONG . NOUN AND PARTICIPLE.

that is why C is wrong.