SC : Howard Stern

[patil.ambar]

Can we have an example when 'Though he has had ' is correct ?
That might put things into perspective.

This one tough to understand.

[jnelson0612]

Can we have an example when 'Though he has had ' is correct ?
That might put things into perspective.

This one tough to understand.

Though he has had substantial success, he knows that he must continue to work hard to keep building his business.

[gmatwork]

OE for choices E and D say that - Having had/ Having achieved are acceptable forms of past perfect construction.

I don't understand this point. can you please explain this alternative form of past perfect constriction used in choices D and E. Although I do understand that D and E are both wrong.

[as2764]

Though he has had substantial success, he knows that he must continue to work hard to keep building his business.

hi Jamie: your example seems very appealing for a combination of present perfect and simple present, but i'm having trouble convincing myself w/ the occurrence of two (or more) PRESENT events. surely, we can have an infinite series of PAST (as well as FUTURE) events, but is it possible to have more than one instance of PRESENT? unless events occur simultaneously (in parallel), in which case you do not need "HAS HAD", i think, there can only be ONE instance of PRESENT. the only way i can imagine this is if something happened in the past and its effect still continues in the PRESENT. sorry, if i appear confused and too convoluted.

Thanks.

[jnelson0612]

Though he has had substantial success, he knows that he must continue to work hard to keep building his business.

hi Jamie: your example seems very appealing for a combination of present perfect and simple present, but i'm having trouble convincing myself w/ the occurrence of two (or more) PRESENT events. surely, we can have an infinite series of PAST (as well as FUTURE) events, but is it possible to have more than one instance of PRESENT? unless events occur simultaneously (in parallel), in which case you do not need "HAS HAD", i think, there can only be ONE instance of PRESENT. the only way i can imagine this is if something happened in the past and its effect still continues in the PRESENT. sorry, if i appear confused and too convoluted.

Thanks.

Ashish, I'm going to need your help here. :-)

So you are okay with my use of present perfect and simple present? I have changed my mind on this a few times as I've read your response. :-)

I agree that two present events are probably going to need a parallel structure. I keep putting potential sentences together in my head and they all involve parallel markers such as "yet, while, and", etc.

[as2764]

Jamie, sorry for the late response. not sure why i didn't get a notification of your reply in my inbox :(

Ashish, I'm going to need your help here. :-)

So you are okay with my use of present perfect and simple present? I have changed my mind on this a few times as I've read your response. :-)

YES, i agree w/ your example in which:
-the subject had attained success in the PAST and continues to enjoy (the effect of) the success in the PRESENT.
-he knows (in the PRESENT) he must continue to work hard.

:) since my query appears to be see-sawing between agreement and disagreement, i'll try to use some basic historical examples here.

ex. 1:
1776 - USA's independence
1914 - start of world war I
1939 - start of world war II
1947 - India's independence

"world war I had occurred before world war II did."

when observed on an imaginary timeline, we can have infinite # of PAST (and FUTURE) events where PAST PERFECT (and FUTURE PERFECT) does justice.

I agree that two present events are probably going to need a parallel structure. I keep putting potential sentences together in my head and they all involve parallel markers such as "yet, while, and", etc.

i recall reading the MGMAT SC guide, and i know exactly what you mean by these exceptions to the PERFECT tense rule in general!

BUT, if you imagine a similar timeline i mentioned above for some PRESENT events, how can we write them in a sentence?

ex. 2:
July 30, 2012 - on-going Syrian war
July 30, 2012 - on-going Olympic games
July 30, 2012 - on-going electoral campaign for US Presidential elections

i ain't suggesting the "start" of the above events, but the current state of these.

appreciate your thoughts. thanks!

[tim]

i don't think your question is sufficiently specific. if we want to write a sentence about them, you should specify what you want to know about these events in the sentence..

[pradipta.jucse]

Hi,

I have just one doubt. 'Had' is used here as a main verb. But why is these sentences wrong :- "He had success", "I have the box with me" . In these 2 sentences, 'had/have' is followed by a noun. So are they wrong. If so, then why ?

[tim]

What makes you think either of your examples is wrong?

[rfpchua]

I've read all the explanations. I'm still not sure I agree that 'Even though' is wordy. That seems like a stretch.

Nonetheless, suppose that the phrase was

"Although he had success..." would this be correct, or do we still need "although he had had sucess"

[RonPurewal]

Hey,
We've deactivated this question in the database.

* Although, though, [i]and even though[/i] are interchangeable.
You're right; there's no basis for the statement that even though is "wordy" (I almost threw up my lunch when I saw that one). Among others, OG12 #31 and #98 would beg to differ.
Besides, "wordy" is not a basis for elimination anyway (although it can be a guessing method if you're stuck); wrong answers will always be actually wrong.

* The past tense isn't wrong.
If Stern had had success -- before the time described in the sentence -- then the tense in choice A would be required. However, if Stern had success AT the time when he decided to walk away, then nothing is wrong with C.

E.g.,
Although he had been famous, Smith died alone. (He had been famous at some earlier point, but wasn't famous anymore when he died.)
Although he was famous, Smith died alone. (He was still famous, but he died when no one was around.)