Vikings!

[270699172]

Hi Ron,
I"˜m so confused. in the correct answer, "but" is followed by "without success", just a phrase. You have said "but" must be followed by a clause unless it connects two same structures. But option A does not meet the two conditions.
Thanks in advance!

well, technically, "without success" and "later in the century" are both modifying the previous action here, so you're still covered there.

but, you do have a point here: there are certainly structures in the greater written english language in which "but" doesn't connect parallel structures. e.g.,
She eats junk food, but only on weekends.
the question (which is still unanswered, as far as i'm aware) is whether GMAC would countenance such constructions. if you have any solid evidence either way, i'd love to see it.

Ron,
many thanks!!! you're an excellent expert!
If i meet similar options, i cannot eliminate them because the options use "but+phrase".
But i think if the option is "clause 1, but+gerund" form, i can unequivocally eliminate it. for example, "Industrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around the globe, but introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants.... ". This is a wrong answer in prep.
Can i do so?

[RonPurewal]

for example, "Industrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around the globe, but introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants.... ". This is a wrong answer in prep.
Can i do so?

well, in this case you'd just have a normal parallelism issue. so, you wouldn't have to judge this construction on its own; instead, you'd just look for another answer choice with better parallelism. (in the case of the construction above, there will definitely be a better answer in there somewhere.)

e.g., there should be another answer choice that says something like, "have improved the standard of living ... but have also introduced dangerous chemicals".

[ven646]

So is ".... late in the century but were not successful" good as Tim Sanders said? Is 'but were not successful" acting as a modifier?

Tim Sanders says:
one way to look at C is that it is incorrect because of the inclusion of the "it" and the comma. without these, the "but" clause would be fine and would not require a subject..

[tim]

To answer your first question, yes I am correct. :) However, the "but" clause is not a modifier at all. The "but" is a conjunction that joins two verbs, both of which have the subject "kings".

[lindaliu9273]

Hi instructors,

I'm confused about the "but" issue.

I understand that two complete sentences have to be connected by conjunction word such as and, or, but.
However, does but have to be followed by a complete clause?

I also have questions about the omittion in parallel.
For c, it could be "but (other Scandinavian kings) were not successful at it". It seems sensible to me.

For E, "but (other Scandinavian kings) without success", miss verb for the clause.

Pls help me point out why I'm incorrect.

Thank you so much!

[RonPurewal]

Hi instructors,

I'm confused about the "but" issue.

I understand that two complete sentences have to be connected by conjunction word such as and, or, but.
However, does but have to be followed by a complete clause?

No.

Any of these three (and, or, but) can connect any type of parallel structures.
Dave is strong but gentle.
Ron thinks quickly but talks slowly.
Etc.

[RonPurewal]

For E, "but (other Scandinavian kings) without success", miss verb for the clause.

This is an exceptional use of "but". It's not connecting any parallel structures, since "without success" isn't parallel to anything else.

There are two options here.

1/
You can just remember this particular usage of "but". It's not going to have many variants"”"”i.e., any analogous usage is virtually assured to look almost exactly the same"”"”so, if you remember a couple of examples of it, you should be able to recognize it fairly easily if you see it again.

2/
There are a number of other instances in which "but" doesn't connect parallel structures.
In these instances, "but" is added for emphasis. It doesn't change the grammar of the sentence"”"”i.e., the sentence would be mechanically sound without it"”"”but it emphasizes insufficiency, low yield, frustration, poor results, etc.
E.g.,
For a day's work, a laborer in Country X makes four dollars.
For a day's work, a laborer in Country X makes but four dollars.
Both sentences are mechanically fine. The second is much more emphatic about the tiny pittance paid to the workers.

I'm seeing the same thing at work here.
Choice E would also work if it were just written "..., without success". The extra "but", though, emphasizes those kings' failure to repeat the feat.

[garimag807]

edited

[RonPurewal]

ok... if you have other questions, go ahead and ask.

[aflaamM589]

Hello Ron,
Please have a look at my reasoning for the parallelism in choice E
[later] in the century--> prepositional phrase, giving information when they attempted to repeat
without success --> prepositional phrase, giving information how they attempted to repeat

Both prepositional phrase are adverbial, thus structurally and logically parallel.

E. an achievement that other Scandinavian kings attempted to repeat later in the century, but without success

please help validate/ invalidate my reasoning for E.
Thank you very much.
Have a nice day.
God bless you.

[RonPurewal]

that exact idea is already addressed in the thread. please read the entire thread. thank you.

[zishj865]

Hello Ron,
Please have a look at my reasoning for the parallelism in choice E
[later] in the century--> prepositional phrase, giving information when they attempted to repeat
without success --> prepositional phrase, giving information how they attempted to repeat

Both prepositional phrase are adverbial, thus structurally and logically parallel.

E. an achievement that other Scandinavian kings attempted to repeat later in the century, but without success

please help validate/ invalidate my reasoning for E.
Thank you very much.
Have a nice day.
God bless you.

Hello Ron

I know punctuation is not tested on the gmat, but just to learn something from Choice E i have some questions.
if we omitt the comma preceding ''but'' , will that still make E correct or change the meaning ? i,e is it just a style issue? does the presence of comma before but shows that the author intended to emphasize that the attempt was unsuccessful?

later in the century but without success two prepositional phrases joined by but

Thanking you in advance

[RonPurewal]

the presence/absence of punctuation isn't tested on this exam.

on a GMAT forum, there is no utility in discussing things the GMAT doesn't test.

[zishj865]

The Scandinavian assault on Western Europe culminated in the early eleventh century with the Danish conquest of the English kingdom, which other Scandinavian kings attempted to repeat, unsuccessfully later in the same century.

A. which other Scandinavian kings attempted to repeat, unsuccessfully, later in the same century
B. which other Scandinavian kings attempted to repeat later that same century, but not successfully
C. an achievement that other Scandinavian kings attempted later in the century to repeat, but were not successful at it
D. an achievement attempted later in the century by other Scandinavian kings that was not successful
E. an achievement that other Scandinavian kings attempted to repeat later in the century, but without success


Here's a link to a gmatprep snapshot of the question/with answer:
http://postimage.org/image/e9zvdfg0x/full/

I got it right, mainly by process of elimination..kinda confused over the gmatprep's explanation though..

A and B: easy to get rid of: which refers to English Kingdom: nonsensical

C: two potential referents for "it": "assault" and "achievement" making the sentence ambiguous; also sounds a little awkward to me

D: two potential referents for "that": "assault" and "achievement" making it ambiguous; also it's using a passive structure.

hence, left with E

However gmatprep says the following about C and E:

C: "The coordinating conjunction but introduced a clause that requires a subject and a verb; this version of the sentence provides the verb were but omits the subject."

E: "the appositive an achievement is made into a direct object in the relative pronoun that . The noun Scandinavian kings is the subject of the verb attempted to repeat, which is modified by the adverbial phrase at the end of the sentence, but without success."

Then by the same token can I say out of the following two sentences 1 is correct, but 2 is not?

1. They did get there, but not on time. (correct, since "but not on time" is an adverbial modifier)
2. They tried to get there on time, but didn't. (incorrect since ", but didn't." is a clause that has a verb but is missing the subject: hence incomplete.)

A little confused if that is the case, because I thought 2 was correct. I thought the subject "they" that is eliminated in the 2nd clause is understood.

Please clarify. Thanks!

Hi Ron

I think that Choice A is not wrong because of the use of'' Which''. Which has been used correctly in that choice as it refers to ''conquest of the English empire'' not just to the english empire. I think A is wrong due to meaning issues. Choice A says that the attempt was intentionally unsuccessful, as is suggested by the adverb unsuccessfully. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Thanks

[RonPurewal]

if there's an answer key, then this is one of the PAID gmat prep questions. that means we can't discuss it here. this thread is therefore now locked.