Diagram

[mlee.cortez]

I am having such a hard time setting up the 2 and 3 conditions. Please help.

[dan]

Hi. Thanks for the question. This is a numbered ordering game, so you'll want to start by setting up a number line as follows:

_ _ _ _ _ _
1 2 3 4 5 6

Perhaps you're having trouble because you're attempting to actually notate the 2nd and 3rd constraints on the number line? Try simply noting the constraint to the side to start:

2nd constraint: F _ V

3rd constraint: G 1, 3, or 5

Once you've noted these to the side, see if you can spot any inferences from these rules. Sometimes you'll be able to note the inferences on the number line. For example, from the 2nd constraint (F _ V) we know that V can't be first or second, and F can't be fifth or sixth. We could note these by crossing off V's under the first and second slots on the line, and crossing off F's under the fifth and sixth slots on the line.

Likewise, the 3rd constraint tells us that G can't be second, fourth or sixth. We could make similar cross-outs under those slots for G.

Try that and see how it goes. In general, when you can't seem to fit a constraint on your picture, simply note it to the side.

Hope that helps!

dan

[mlee.cortez]

Thanks, Dan.

I actually meant I was having difficulties with conditions 1 & 2 (it'll be really sad if I can't understand the 3rd condition! LOL).

But my difficulty comes from the language "exactly one group behind" and "but ahead of the veterans."

I started second guessing my set-up because it says there's exactly one group behind the Firefighters [set up as: F - (one group)] so I couldn't be sure if the "ahead of the veterans" meant F-(group)-V...because with this set up, it looks like there isn't exactly just exactly one group behind F (I intepret it as having 2 groups after F). Could you further explain how F-unknown group-V set up is right even when it says that there's exactly one group behind F?

Also, please confirm that the first condition set up is: P - 1unkgroup - 2unkgroup - M

Thank you!

[dan]

I see what you mean. Let's take a different example.

Imagine 6 people interview for a job, and I tell you...

Exactly 4 people interviewed for the job but did not get hired.

Can we interpret this as:

Exactly four people interviewed for the job.

No. We know this statement isn't true. There are six people who interviewed. The statement actually means:

There are 4 people who interviewed for the job who ALSO did not get hired.

The same thing goes for:

Exactly one group marches behind F but ahead of V.

Can we interpret this as:

Exactly one group marches behind F.

No! This fails to consider the second half of the statement. We need to interpret this as:

There is exactly one group who marches behind F who ALSO marches ahead of V.

In other words, there is exactly one group who does both of those things, no more no less. This means there is exactly one group between F and V.

If they wanted to say F _ , and nothing more, they would write: Exactly one group marches behind F.

As far as your notation for the first constraint goes, make sure you consider the "at least." It says "at least" two groups, NOT exactly two groups. In cases like this, I would notate this as:

P ... _ _ ... M

The dots remind me that there could be more spaces between the P and M (in addition to the two that I know MUST sit between them).

Hope that helps!

dan

[coryjlewis]

Can you post a picture of the completed diagram with all inferences and framing for this game?

[bbirdwell]

I actually wouldn't frame this game. Frames are most useful when a game meets the following conditions:
1. two clear "options" for a particular element
2. those options affect other elements in the game

While frames can sometimes be useful in games that have three options, as this one does, this game does not meet the second criteria. Putting G in different places doesn't concretely tell me much at all about the other elements in the game.

I'd symbolize the constraints essentially as Dan mentioned above:
1. P __ __ + M (the plus sign tells me there might be more than two between them)

2. F __ V (exactly one between F and V)

3. G1, G2, or G3

Then I'd draw a number line and make the straightforward inferences below it:

F cannot go 6th or 5th
V cannot go 1st or 2nd
P cannot go 6th or 5th or 4th
M cannot go 1st or 2nd or 3rd

From there I would rock out the questions, paying particular attention to the two "chunks."

[cdjmarmon]

I am also confused on the 1st and 2nd rules.

I just dont see in the language how we can confirm its

F_V and P_+_M

Because it says Atleast 2 groups march behind P "but" ahead of M.

Shouldnt it says Atleast 2 groups march behind P and ahead of M?

Is it safe to say if we incounter a rule like these two were it talks about spaces and mentions two items we should diagram it like this regardless of the "and" and "but"? And just know if they meant exactly one behind F it wouldnt mention the V in the same rule?

[timmydoeslsat]

The words "and" and "but" mean the same thing logically.

Such as introducing biconditional phrases:

if and only if

=

if but only if

[tsj215]

I don't understand how you got P--M and F--V. I got exactly the opposite. The constraint states 2 groups behind P and ahead of M. It also states 1 group behind F ahead of V.

[timmydoeslsat]

We are told that these variables are ordered from the front (first) to the back (sixth).

We are also told that at least two variables are behind P but ahead of M.

P _ _ +1? M

We also know that exactly one variable is behind F but ahead of V.

F _ V

[alinachu2010]

hi, sorry to ask, but I am still confused regarding the rule 1 (same 2)

according to [u]LG strategy book 1, page 30, the rules of order states:

L finishes tow spots ahead of P : L _ P
L finishes at least two spots ahead of P : L_+P

So, accordingly, in this game, rule 1 at least two groups march behind P but ahead of M,
shouldn't it be like this : P _+M

why the correct notation is : P_ _ + M

If these are two separate rules, "at least two groups march behind P", another rule is "at least two groups march ahead of M", how to diagram these two rules, will it make a difference?

thank you

[maryadkins]

Your notation is correct!