Q24 - If an external force

[mrudula_2005]

hi,

Why is C the correct answer choice over choice E? I felt like C focused on the evidence and E focused on the conclusion of the argument...

just need some help sorting this one out.

thanks!

[ManhattanPrepLSAT2]

Tough question.

Here's the core of this argument:

During people's struggle to become free, people have best chance of gaining virtues necessary for freedom.

THEREFORE

If external force intervenes, that community will almost surely fail to be truly free.

What is the author's reason for using this evidence to prove this conclusion? He seems to be saying that people need to struggle and develop these virtues in order to stay free, and that's why his conclusion is true. Answer choice (C) represents this idea well.

(E) is very attractive but has some issues --

1) The argument is not about external forces imposing real freedom-- it's about the fact that when external forces impose political self-determination, real freedom doesn't generally arise. The answer incorrectly mixes up various subjects in the argument to create an answer that doesn't have direct relevance.

2) Whether the external forces should or shouldn't do something is never explicitly or implicitly discussed -- the argument is specifically about the impact this has on freedom.

[mrudula_2005]

Tough question.

Here's the core of this argument:

During people's struggle to become free, people have best chance of gaining virtues necessary for freedom.

THEREFORE

If external force intervenes, that community will almost surely fail to be truly free.

What is the author's reason for using this evidence to prove this conclusion? He seems to be saying that people need to struggle and develop these virtues in order to stay free, and that's why his conclusion is true. Answer choice (C) represents this idea well.

(E) is very attractive but has some issues --

1) The argument is not about external forces imposing real freedom-- it's about the fact that when external forces impose political self-determination, real freedom doesn't generally arise. The answer incorrectly mixes up various subjects in the argument to create an answer that doesn't have direct relevance.

2) Whether the external forces should or shouldn't do something is never explicitly or implicitly discussed -- the argument is specifically about the impact this has on freedom.

that was an extremely helpful response - as were your other responses to my questions from this test. thanks so much!

[mrudula_2005]

quick question: when a question stem like this one is worded "the reasoning above conforms most closely to which one of the following principles" - does the word reasoning function as a tip off to focus more on the evidence used to support the conclusion rather than on the entire connection btwn the evidence and conclusion? what exactly does that word mean in this context and others...?

thanks!

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

Good question. I think the simple answer is no. The word "reasoning" in this context simply means the connection between the evidence and the conclusion, not just the evidence.

The stimulus consists of an argument, something like

A,
therefore B

We're asked to find a principle to which the reasoning conforms. It's best to simply think of this as a sufficient assumption question; which principle in the answer choices justifies the conclusion reached in the stimulus, based on the evidence?

Something like if A, then B.

Does that help? Or did I misunderstand your question?

[martintp]

I was really contemplating between E and C but ended up choosing C because E felt like circular reasoning and thought we should somehow tie the the premise and the conclusion together. But can someone explain this because I am still not very clear on it.

[timmydoeslsat]

Your thought process on tying the premise to the conclusion together is a great thought process on justifying principle questions.

However, conforming principle questions, is a totally different type of question.

Think of justifying principle questions as a kind of sufficient assumption question, where you plug in a principle that justifies the conclusion.

Conforming principle questions is where you want to essentially get a principle that follows what the stimulus told us.

This stimulus can be seen as this:

If external force intervenes to give members of a community political self-determination ---> That community will almost surely fail to be free

It will fail to be free because it is during the struggle to become free by the community's efforts that the political virtues necessary for maintaining freedom have the best chance of arising.

Answer choice C is stating:

Community remains free ---> Developed certain political virtues prior to becoming free.

Choice E is not a statement in which the stimulus conforms to the principle.

It states that real freedom should not be imposed by external forces.

This stimulus says nothing about real freedom. I would argue that this stimulus implies that external forces intervening to give self-determination is NOT real freedom, since it will not last.

[irenaj]

But "real freedom" in E is really alike "truly free" in the stimulus. Why aren't they the same thing?

Any thought would be appreciated!

[zainrizvi]

But "real freedom" in E is really alike "truly free" in the stimulus. Why aren't they the same thing?

Any thought would be appreciated!

Yeah i'm confused by this as well... Is it just because of the usage of "should" that this answer choice should be avoided?

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

But "real freedom" in E is really alike "truly free" in the stimulus. Why aren't they the same thing?

Any thought would be appreciated!

The issue with answer choice (E) is that it involves a subjective claim. Where in the stimulus do we hear about what should be the case? The argument is only about what is the case under various conditions.

Be on the lookout for swapping statements about what is the case for statements about what ought to be the case.

Timmy is exactly right on this one in that we're not trying to justify the reasoning here, but rather looking for a principle that conforms to the reasoning. That said, I might adjust this back to an assumption question, but a Necessary Assumption - though in this case I don't see much of a difference.

The argument concludes that these nations will not be truly free from the claim that they will not have developed those political virtues they need. The assumption being that in order to be free they must have those political virtues - best expressed in answer choice (C).

Let's look at the incorrect answers here though:

(A) is consistent with the argument. The conclusion says that any nation that has self-determination imposed by an external force will "almost surely" fail to be truly free. So of course a nation can be free if that self-determination is imposed externally, but that is not a principle that underlies the reasoning between the evidence and the conclusion.
(B) is irrelevant. The order in which certain political virtues are attained is not important.
(D) is close, but not quite. We want to link the evidence with the conclusion. Self determination is not mentioned though in the evidence but rather in the conclusion at the same time that the argument concludes that the community will not be truly free. We need to tie in the evidence about not having the political virtues the argument suggests are required for true freedom.
(E) suggests what ought to be the case and therefore might suggest a principle we might draw from the argument if we wanted to recommend a course of action, but is not a principle appealed to within the argument as it's presented.

Hope that helps and let me know if you have further questions on this one!

[TalA307]

Hi there

I had a hard time with this one because C states that a community CANNOT remain free without first developing certain political virtues. The stimulus, however, states that it almost definitely won't - almost definitely, by definition, means that there is a small possibility that it can.

If that's the case, I don't see how B can be a viable answer.

I'm taking the LSAT in 3 days so any insights would be greatly appreciated!

[AshleyT786]

Are self-determination and freedom interchangeable in the context of this stimulus?