Industrialization and modern methods Usage of while and but

[sophie.saurabh]

Ron,

Come to think of it, why can't 'industrialization and modern methods' go unregulated?

even though that may be an acceptable interpretation, this choice still doesn't contain a correct use of the COMMA + -ING modifier.

in particular, the COMMA -ING modifiers should represent one of the following two meanings:
1) the -ing part is the DIRECT or INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCE of what is described in the main clause;
or
2) the -ing part describes the MANNER IN WHICH the main clause occurs.

here are examples of each:
1) bob earned a score of 95 on the most recent exam, bringing his average for the entire semester up to 87.
2) joe ran down the sidewalk, flapping his arms frantically.

the problem with choice (a) on this question is that it seems to be an example of relationship type #1, but the causation is reversed. in other words, the way in which this choice is written -- ... introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having gone virtually unregulated -- implies that the lack of regulation is actually a consequence of the presence of the chemical pollutants.
that doesn't work, although the sentence would actually work decently well if it were written backward, i.e., went virtually unregulated, introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants...
even that construction would still be a little bit shaky, since the connection between lack of regulation and production of dangerous pollutants is not terribly sound. (note the terms "direct" and "inevitable" in the above explanation -- you don't normally use comma -ing modifiers unless you have a very strong connection like this.)

Hi Ron,

Going back to the Christopher Columbus question (link below)
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/rather-than-accept-the-conventional-wisdom-that-the-earth-t1177.html

the correct answer here uses COMMA + having and it still does not follow any of the two patterns you mentioned above.

Please explain.

[violetwind]

sorry repeated poster, I've deleted it.

[violetwind]

in choice b, you already have the words 'at the same time'. because gmat problems don't tolerate redundancy at all, it follows that 'while' must be interpreted as meaning 'whereas'. note the following: you can correctly use 'while' with the participle (introducing), but you cannot do so with 'but'.

if you are going to use 'but', you need either a completely new clause ('...but they have also introduced), or another verb that is parallel to the verb already used ('...but have also introduced').

Hi Ron,

As you said, "but" cannot lead the ellipsis version of a clause (participle)as can "while" , I'm wondering whether "but nevertheless"/"nevertheless" can lead participle as ellipsis version of a clause?

I come up with this question as I met a sentence as following and don't know if it is right.
Dolphins lack vocal cords, but nevertheless creating sounds.

Thank you!

[messi10]

Hi Ron or other experts/instructors,

After reading through some of the posts and other linked posts, I am a bit confused about "having" as a adverbial modifier.

Am I correct in assuming that COMMA + having is not generally used as an adverbial modifier but there are exceptions to this rule?

Thanks

Sunil

[RonPurewal]

As you said, "but" cannot lead the ellipsis version of a clause (participle)as can "while" , I'm wondering whether "but nevertheless"/"nevertheless" can lead participle as ellipsis version of a clause?

"nevertheless" is an adverb; adverbs and adjectives have no effect on the surrounding grammar.

also, i don't really know what you mean by "ellipsis version of a clause" -- but make sure you know that there is no such thing as a "hidden clause". if a construction isn't actually a clause, then it isn't a clause.

I come up with this question as I met a sentence as following and don't know if it is right.
Dolphins lack vocal cords, but nevertheless creating sounds.

this is wrong, because "creating" (a) is not a clause and (b) is not parallel to anything.

[gmatwork]

ndustrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around the globe while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having gone virtually unregulated since they were developed more than 50 years ago.

A. while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having
B. while at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants that have
C. while they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time, which have
D. but introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time that have
E. but at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having

OA: (B)

while vs but - which one is correct here?

[RonPurewal]

ndustrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around the globe while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having gone virtually unregulated since they were developed more than 50 years ago.

A. while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having
B. while at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants that have
C. while they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time, which have
D. but introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time that have
E. but at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having

OA: (B)

while vs but - which one is correct here?

you could get either of them to work, but you'd have to use them differently.

go to page 1 of this thread, and read the second post from the top.

[jp.jprasanna]

hi Ron - I have read all the above posts, I just wanted to know why is C wrong...

clause (while) clause, which have... here which refers to pollutants because of the verb "have" but why is B better than C?

Thanks.

[jp.jprasanna]

hi Ron - I have read all the above posts, I just wanted to know why is C wrong...

clause (while) clause, which have... here which refers to pollutants because of the verb "have" but why is B better than C?

Thanks.

- Ok is C wrong only because of the placement of perp phrase "at the same time" or is there any other reason?

Cheers

[RonPurewal]

- Ok is C wrong only because of the placement of perp phrase "at the same time" or is there any other reason?

Cheers

the most grasp-able error i see in there:
the connector "and" doesn't make sense, because there is a relationship between the lack of regulation and the proliferation of pollutants. to express this relationship properly, you need a modifier, as in the correct answer choice.

[davetzulin]

if the problem was written correctly ( i checked on two other forums and it appears to be correct ), then shouldn't A/C be wrong because they lack commas?

Industrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around the globe while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having gone virtually unregulated since they were developed more than 50 years ago.

A. while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having

C. while they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time, which have

[RonPurewal]

if the problem was written correctly ( i checked on two other forums and it appears to be correct ), then shouldn't A/C be wrong because they lack commas?

lack commas where?

(remember that the gmat doesn't test incorrect punctuation, so the answer to this question is probably "no" ... but let's examine it anyway.)

[davetzulin]

Ron, I probably need clarification on this anyway, but I see while introducing another clause that has its own subject and verb


Industrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around the globe

a. [comma] while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having
b. [i dont think this needs a comma for reason stated above] while at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants that have
c. [comma] while they have introduced 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time, and have

[zhongshanlh]

Ron,i find that--->
the question was written wrong here in the original post.
option C should be:

while they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time,which have

notice that? it should be "which" not the original "and"!

Oh my god,after discussing this problem for such a long time, nobody found that copy error.

and then i am confused about the option C, why is C wrong then?????
please help and thank you in advance.

[zhongshanlh]

Ron and experts,
well,actually, i have found there are two versions of this question , one is that in the original post, the other is just as below--->

Industrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around
the globe while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical
pollutants, having gone virtually unregulated since they were developed more than 50 years ago.
(A) while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants,
having
(B) while at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants that have
(C) while they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time,
which have
(D) but introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time that have
(E) but at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having

there as some little differences between this two questions, and i have problems with the second one.
i want to know what is wrong with choice C?
please help and thank you!